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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 11:30 am
 


Did the cops punch the natives for being natives; or did they punch people for another reason and those people just happened to be native.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 11:48 am
 


Good God. let's try to follow context. My reply had nothing to do with using the word Indian.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 12:23 pm
 


Vbeacher wrote:
bootlegga wrote:
The Iroquois also built permanent settlements with long houses and wooden palisades.


The gentle, kindly Iroquois? Those people? Would you like to compare what the Iroquois did to those they warred on as compared to what the evil white European invaders did? Because if we'd used their practices there'd be no notices alive today. Look up the Illini for example. They were a thriving group of tribes until the Iroquois decided they wanted their land.

The natives in Canada were savages by almost any reasonable standards. Hell, even our own ancestors were primitives. The difference is our ancestors had science and a determination to seek knowledge in all things. That's how they found North America in the first place. Natives didn't explore this place and chart and map it. Europeans did. Few natives had any idea what or who existed beyond a small distance from their villages. They had no science, no wheel, no animals to use for transportation or labour saving, and had existed in a largely static society for eons. Had Europeans never showed up here, they would probably be living largely as they were then, and dying at age 30.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 12:28 pm
 


Thanos wrote:
raydan wrote:
If you look at what we've built, we haven't made this world a better place. If anything, we've screwed it up pretty bad. :(


Yup. It's a collective guilt that everyone who's ever lived has been part of. Humans by nature are destructive, and that applies as much to the old hunter/gatherers, or the early agricultural communities, all the way through to the industrial age, and then on to the reverse-mercantilism that sees the old jobs in the western countries get outsourced to the developing world. Everywhere on this planet nature is in full retreat, sadly too often past the point of extinction. There is no such thing as "low-impact" when it comes to human activity.

And people are what they are. There's no way in hell that anyone will ever convince me that anyone on this planet, and that includes the North American Natives or black Africans, wouldn't have behaved exactly the same way European or Chinese culture did when if they'd had the same civilized tools and ideas in their possession. All this "we worship Mother Earth while you guys only want to destroy it" is just plain crap that isn't worth a second of thought being put towards it.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 12:30 pm
 


Thanos wrote:
Their largest missing catalyst was that the Mayans, Aztecs, and other Central American civilizations didn't spread their technology and other ideas far and wide enough into North and South America in the same way that the Egyptians, Greeks, and Romans did through Europe. Without the uber-culture there to provide the impetus, through trade or conquest or what have you, the bordering tribal cultures would not be "converted" over to the more technical way of life. When the civilizations fell there was no repository of their knowledge waiting to be found among the neighbouring tribes in the same way the knowledge was preserved in the monasteries and churches of Dark Ages Europe.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 12:33 pm
 


llama66 wrote:
There is logic to what Coach is saying. Are some of the acts perpetrated by some Europeans egregious and destructive to your culture? Yes. Absolutely. However, at some point, we need to move past the past and look to the future.

It's true, we are trying to "make up" for some of the wrongs done, but the only people that can raise the FN's up from the pit they seemingly are in, is the FN community. At some point a conscious decision to move past these "past transgressions" and focus on a future where the FN community is seen as a positive segment of the Canadian community. I think the first step not blaming the Euros/White Man for every short coming. There needs to be responsibility accepted on both sides.


Just my take.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 12:37 pm
 


Coach85 wrote:
Zipperfish wrote:

If they have some rights and title over their traditional territories, then they can generate wealth from the land, both through hunting and fishing, as well as through royalties and taxes of economic activity on those lands. My bet is that the wealth of the land far outstrips that of housing.


They can hunt and fish off the land now. They can sell weed and illegal cigarettes. All without police intervention. They can run businesses and they already get royalties from various businesses that operate on their land.


Zipperfish wrote:
Canada is signing agreements with First Nations to co-manage lands and seas and providing funding to enable this. I don't really keep track of social assistance or substance use, but I've seen improvements on the reserves around here, and I also know there have been improvements in health indicators (life expectancy, youth suicide, infant mortality, etc). So yes, there has been measurable benefits of reconciliation and co-management.


First, why does someone need funding to manage the land? You want control over the land and then funding on top of that? What about being self sufficient and generating income off the land?

Zipperfish wrote:
Ingrates? And what do they have to be grateful for? Are they supposed to be thankful for racists like you who think they're lazy ingrates?


How about being thankful for living in a great Country like Canada? About being thankful for the steps taken to apologize for the past wrongs? Thankful for the billions of dollars spent on my specific community each year?

Zipperfish wrote:
I do take personal responsibility. That's one of the reasons I take the time to respond to this endless invective of racism--I feel personally responsible to stand up to "lazy no-good Injuns" racism.


Telling me that the majority of criminals in Toronto are black isn't racist. It's factual.

Talking about Natives on social assistance with drinking and drug problems isn't racist, it's factual.

Zipperfish wrote:
It seems to me that your position of washing your hands of past injustices is the position that lacks responsibility.


I have nothing to apologize for nor a need to wash my hands of anything. Our country has apologized repeatedly for it's actions and spends billions annually to support this specific group of people which I don't have a problem with.

We can't have an adult conversation about anything with respect to our First Nation's problems without false cries of racism.

It's time to stop blaming the white man for everything.

R=UP


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 12:41 pm
 


Thanos wrote:
I'm all for money and management if they make the reserves profitable and turns them into much better places to live, although by Shep's horror stories there's always gonna be a cluster of fetal-alcohol syndrome assholes and born-criminal pricks who try to wreck the place for the others who are trying hard. My main concern is this "reconciliation" buzzword. Like when is reconciliation complete, when are the alleged debts finally paid off, when does the endless apology train get to it's final stop? Or is it going to be something that's there as long as Canada exists, where no generation of non-Natives is free of the collective guilt that's apparently laid on them even before they're born?

To me this is an intolerable situation. And I'm not talking about treaty rights either. If those are perpetual then so be it. I'm way more concerned about the corrosion on national morale that has already occurred, and apparently always will, by making the future permanently responsible to pay for the mistakes and (alleged) crimes of the past.


Well put, Thanos.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 1:41 pm
 


herbie wrote:
Good God. let's try to follow context. My reply had nothing to do with using the word Indian.


You quoted it, didn't you?

I put it in the correct context is all.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 6:02 am
 


BartSimpson wrote:
Freakinoldguy wrote:
But, would it be racism to want to punch someone in the face who just happened to be a Native?
Maybe we should ask the Winnipeg police what they think of punching natives in the face and whether or not that it's racist?

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba ... -1.3864614

[B-o]
To hell with asking!
Maybe the guy who said it should try it out himself and tell us how it works out!


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 4:36 pm
 


herbie wrote:
Good God. let's try to follow context. My reply had nothing to do with using the word Indian.


And my anger has nothing to do with the race of the activists sneering at and shitting on Canada's history. In truth, I have WAY more contempt for white leftist activists who insist on finding people from previous centuries GUILTY of not having the same value system as they do today.

Of course, they only use that retroactive judgement against White people, and never ever against any of the other people's of the world from centuries past.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 8:08 pm
 


BartSimpson wrote:
herbie wrote:
Good God. let's try to follow context. My reply had nothing to do with using the word Indian.


You quoted it, didn't you?

I put it in the correct context is all.

No you made up a context cuz you're unable to argue the point. Hell you didn't even make it up you did a "Mom Billy said fuck when he told you I said fuck so you should smack him not me..."


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