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CKA Uber
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2018 12:05 pm
 


Title: Justin Trudeau says vow to balance budget in 4 years is 'very' cast in stone
Category: Political
Posted By: N_Fiddledog
Date: 2018-11-24 10:45:04
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CKA Uber
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2018 12:05 pm
 


Oops forgot to read the icon on the site I found this.

It said "Flashback."

This is from 2015. Interesting read knowing what we now know though.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2018 1:07 pm
 


The stone happens to be molten.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2018 1:45 pm
 


Whenever a politician says he'll pay later, that never happens. There is no "later", there is only now. Do it now, or it won't happen.

The only finance minister since World War 2 to pay down the debt was Paul Martin. Jim Flaherty did the first couple years, but his first budget of May 2006 (if you read the full budget document) stated his intent to increase spending for their first 2 months in office so that the surplus for 2006-'06 was reduced. That budget said the "status quo surplus" for 2005-'06 was $17.4 billion, but he stated his intent to reduce it to $8.0 billion. Again, not through tax cuts, this was just through increased spending. The auditor general's report for that year said spending was $13.9 billion over the 2005 budget, but Canadians paid more in taxes than anyone expected resulting in a $13.4 billion surplus. So Harper Conservatives increased spending until they through us back into deficit. That was before the US financial crisis of 2008. They didn't have any room, so the deficit of 2009 ended up $55.6 billion! The largest deficit in Canadian history!

Paul Martin demonstrated there's only one way to balance the budget: cut, cut, cut, cut some more, cut until it hurts, cut until you bleed, then cut further!


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2018 2:07 pm
 


The world is going to enter into a major Trump-initiated recession in the next couple of years, or one that's been triggered by the next ridiculous Wall Street scheme that implodes. Worrying or even talking about debts and deficits right now, with the next tsunami on the horizon, is irresponsible.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2018 2:18 pm
 


Winnipegger wrote:
Paul Martin demonstrated there's only one way to balance the budget: cut, cut, cut, cut some more, cut until it hurts, cut until you bleed, then cut further!


I'm sorry but Paul Martin makes Bernie Madoff look like Mother Teresa when it comes to money. The only way the Liberals could ever get a balanced budget was by stealing money from their constituents of which over half couldn't fight back.

Quote:
OTTAWA—In a decision welcomed by the federal Conservatives, the Supreme Court of Canada ruled Wednesday the government does not have to account separately for pension money it owes public service retirees or pay back a $28-billion surplus that built up on the books.



https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/201 ... court.html

BTW that wasn't a "surplus" it was a major portion of a pension fund that we paid into and guess what happened after these thieving ingrates had taken the money out.

Quote:
The latest actuarial report on the public service pension plan shows a $4.4 billion shortfall that the new Liberal government is legally bound to make up in special payments of at least $416M for 15 years.


https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/pu ... to-make-up

So, had Martin not raped that pension fund, the taxpayers of Canada wouldn't be forced to pay 415 million per year for the next 15 years which goes towards the deficit not towards a surplus. Nor would the current pension contributors have to now make up the difference by making larger pension payments than anyone had to before the Liberals got ahold of their fund.

Say what you will about Mr. Martins financial ability but the truth is. If stealing from people and then having to have the taxpayers make up the shortfall from that theft means balancing a budget we as a country are in real trouble. :roll:

And don't get me started on the off loading of health care costs to the province which is another magic trick Chretien and Martin used to "balance" their budget.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2018 2:21 pm
 


Or the great UIC/EI rip-off that was done to unemployed people who had paid into the insurance fund only to get cut off or denied altogether when the Liberals tightened up the rules so much that it became practically impossible for a lot of people to access what they were due. Or the way civil servants in the EI offices were instructed to behave, with clients being abused and mocked like they were dealing with some rotten bullying scum at a collection agency. That disgrace all happened under Chretien/Martin too, not under the hated Mulroney the way certain bad memories like to portray it these days.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2018 2:40 pm
 


Thanos wrote:
The world is going to enter into a major Trump-initiated recession in the next couple of years, or one that's been triggered by the next ridiculous Wall Street scheme that implodes. Worrying or even talking about debts and deficits right now, with the next tsunami on the horizon, is irresponsible.

All the more reason to reduce the debt now, while we can.

You mention CPP and UI/EI scams. Yes, that happened. And off-loading healthcare cost to provinces. But it was necessary. Mulroney was elected in 1984 to balance the budget, reduce debt, reduce taxes. He did the opposite. When Chrétien/Martin were elected in 1993, we had a hell of a mess. Actually, to be blunt, I the early 1980s, before Mulroney was elected, I thought those extreme measures would be necessary. Everything Chrétien/Martin did are things I called for before Mulroney.

Between Harper and now the current government, we will be in bad shape when the next financial shit-storm hits the fan.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2018 2:45 pm
 


Please stop with the hagiography of the good ol' days of deficit busting. It was a nightmare for Canadians at the time and left nothing but a legacy of delayed infrastructure building and badly damaged to maintenance of the basic systems of government. If anything the true roots of the woes of the Canadian military began under Chretien/Martin with the cancellation of the Cormorant helicopters to replace the SeaKings, and made further atrocious with the purchase of those shitty discount British subs, one of which caught on fire during it's initial journey to Canada and killed a naval officer aboard.

Whether it was at the federal level with the Liberals, or at the provincial level with Ralph Klein one thing ever got revealed as basic truth when governments become obsessed with debts and deficits - austerity is ALWAYS a complete and total failure of policy and of imagination.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2018 3:00 pm
 


Everyone always has to keep spending within their means. Everyone. Always. Claims that keeping spending within your means somehow constitutes "austerity" are stupid. That's not austerity. Living on welfare is austerity. Ever tried it? If not, don't talk to me about "austerity".

But you raised infrastructure. Obviously you benefit from government spending. How? You mention military. Do you work for a military contractor?

I get pissed-off at government employees who lobby for higher taxes. They seriously expect the government to increase their salary to pay for the higher taxes. That doesn't work for anyone outside the government. When taxes go up, employers have less money. You're lucky if your salary stays the same, and any expected raise is cancelled. Often before-deduction wages and salary are cut. Then higher taxes deduct from that. Every time a lobby group of government employees ask for more tax, we need to slash their salary!


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2018 3:14 pm
 


I'm on limited support right now. Don't pretend you know my situation. And I don't care about party policy or party propaganda designed to make themselves and their friends with all the money feel great about themselves. All I care about anymore are the people, the easily disposed-of ones, who've been crushed by this evil fucking economic system and will never be able to stand on their own feet again. As for the ones with the money and their lap-dogs in the governments? Hopefully the worst circle of hell is waiting with open arms for the disgusting aristocratic lot of them. :evil:


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2018 3:50 pm
 


Thanos wrote:
I'm on limited support right now. Don't pretend you know my situation. And I don't care about party policy or party propaganda designed to make themselves and their friends with all the money feel great about themselves. All I care about anymore are the people, the easily disposed-of ones, who've been crushed by this evil fucking economic system and will never be able to stand on their own feet again. As for the ones with the money and their lap-dogs in the governments? Hopefully the worst circle of hell is waiting with open arms for the disgusting aristocratic lot of them. :evil:

Hear hear! I joined the Liberal party when Paul Martin be amended leader. Then the party back-stabbed him. I'm concerned what the party has become. Justin promised to end party in-fighting. He claimed he believes in fiscal responsibility. But this latest fiscal update has me angry. I sent a request to Bill Morneau last December as part of pre-budget consultation. Got an automated acknowledgement in January. Nothing showed in the budget. Sent the same letter last month, a staffer responded saying it would be brought to the Minister's attending. But he didn't just ignore me, this goes in the opposite direction. In an interview on CBC's Power and Politics, Mr Morneau claimed what the Harper Conservatives did was working...until they cut spending. But they never cut spending! They never had a surplus and never balanced the budget. The reason the deficit shrunk is average working Canadians paid more tax. Why would Morneau defend Conservatives?

He's screwing average woking individuals to help the rich. He's determined to lose next election.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2018 12:59 am
 


Plus ca change plus c'est la meme chose. All human systems, political and economic alike, are failures.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2018 7:52 am
 


Winnipegger wrote:
Whenever a politician says he'll pay later, that never happens. There is no "later", there is only now. Do it now, or it won't happen.

The only finance minister since World War 2 to pay down the debt was Paul Martin. Jim Flaherty did the first couple years, but his first budget of May 2006 (if you read the full budget document) stated his intent to increase spending for their first 2 months in office so that the surplus for 2006-'06 was reduced. That budget said the "status quo surplus" for 2005-'06 was $17.4 billion, but he stated his intent to reduce it to $8.0 billion. Again, not through tax cuts, this was just through increased spending. The auditor general's report for that year said spending was $13.9 billion over the 2005 budget, but Canadians paid more in taxes than anyone expected resulting in a $13.4 billion surplus. So Harper Conservatives increased spending until they through us back into deficit. That was before the US financial crisis of 2008. They didn't have any room, so the deficit of 2009 ended up $55.6 billion! The largest deficit in Canadian history!

Paul Martin demonstrated there's only one way to balance the budget: cut, cut, cut, cut some more, cut until it hurts, cut until you bleed, then cut further!


The Martin/Chretien austerity years were tough on citizens. It should not become the new normal. There is no need for a nation with sovereign currency to ever balance a budget. As long as debt is below a certain critical threshold a government does not ever need to eliminate it.

“Government debt” is actually the value of bonds purchased by Canadians and the payments government makes on that debt is money paid back to Canadians, it is not “wasted” money shot into outer space that benefits nobody. Government revenue is guaranteed in perpetuity and always grows over the long term along with the growth in the taxbase, as does the number of Canadians wanting to purchase those bonds and thereby lend more money to the government.

Justin was stupid to promise a balanced budget and now he’s going to have to deal with the consequences. Bur I guess promising to balance the budget is just a mandatory political ritual in Canada, just like how American politicians of all stripes have to use their family as props and pose in front of a church pretending to be deeply religious perfect family.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2018 11:23 am
 


Increased automation over the years as well as the wilful destruction of the oil & gas industry are going to put a major kibosh on the tax base as systemic/institutional unemployment becomes a built-in feature of the economy though. More people but far fewer jobs available to them equals less tax revenue available to the government. And, as everyone outside the untouchable elite already knows, the McJobs that show up aren't enough to replace the decent working and middle-class jobs that are being eliminated.


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