[Newsbot]

Title: Kenora legion chaplain offers resignation after remarks
Category: Military
Posted By: DrCaleb
Date: 2014-11-18 07:10:20
Canadian

[DrCaleb]

"People should rally behind the wounded not against those who are the messengers of the wounded's plight."

When asked whether there is a lesson for others in her Remembrance Day experience, Tankard said "perhaps it is that the freedoms we have to speak are not necessarily as vibrant as they once were."

Hmmmmmm.

[andyt]

She has freedom of speech to say what she thinks, as do the people who used theirs to express their displeasure at what she said.

[DrCaleb]

andyt andyt:

She has freedom of speech to say what she thinks, as do the people who used theirs to express their displeasure at what she said.

If it costs her a volunteer position doing what the Legion was meant to do, then her freedom of speech has been restricted by an elected official to suit his own views.

[andyt]

The elected official can't fire her, only the legion can. Volunteer or employee, if the legion doesn't like what she said, they can dismiss her. This question comes up over and over, and the answer is always the same - you can't be put in jail for what you say, but you can sure experience consequences.

I guess determining what the legion was meant to do is up to them. If they don't want to take an adversarial role, that is their choice. I just checked, and they don't receive govt funds, so there's no govt pressure that could be applied.

[Freakinoldguy]

Sorry but she's way out of line and should have been censored. Remembrance Day is not a normal Church Service where she can stand in the pulpit spiting fire and brimstone. It is a formal ceremony dedicated to the Fallen and as such has a set program which does not allow "anyone" to freestyle it and politicize the proceedings.

I applaud her concern for the Veterans but, she should have known better than to try and coopt a Remembrance Day Ceremony for political recriminations so, it's pretty easy to se why the Legion is upset. If she feels it's her right to do things like this then the Kenora Legion will be better off without her especially since she doesn't follow direction all that well since she should have remembered that when you're inducted into the Legion they are explicit about the Organization being non political and non partisan.

And for those interested:

$1:

The Legion Service Bureau Network serves Veterans, members of the Canadian Armed Forces (CAF), RCMP, and their families by representing their interests with Veterans Affairs Canada and the Veterans Review and Appeal Board for disability benefits under the Pension Act or the New Veterans Charter. The Legion’s professional Command Service Officers are mandated by legislation to provide representation, advocacy and financial assistance free of charge, Legion member or not

[Goober911]

Politics should be set aside on 11 Nov.

The Legion should get Political about the New Veterans Charter. But they refuse to do so.

[Freakinoldguy]

Goober911 Goober911:

Politics should be set aside on 11 Nov.

The Legion should get Political about the New Veterans Charter. But they refuse to do so.

Exactly and from what I understand they are just one of a number of Veteran advocate groups trying to get the Gov't to go back to the previous Charter and scrap this piece of crap they're running now.

But, I don't hold out much hope because the Gov't has seen a massive amount of saved money from the current Charter and politicians being politicians no matter what party they represent love saving money on the Military's back so, nothing will change even if we dump the Conservatives because the Veterans will still end up getting the shaft.

[Xort]

How is saying the care modern veterans are getting is substandard political?

The new veterans charter was passed unanimously by parliament. Every political party and independent MP sitting at the time is equally to blame for the cost cutting drop in care and compensation.

The problem with the old system was that VAC was/is filled with lazy insensitive government drones more interested in the union benefits and pension than helping vets in need. The current problem is they still have the same chair filling drones, only now the government just wants to throw a single near impossible to appeal capped amount to make their obligation to the veteran care problem go away.

Depending on the exact nature of what was said it could be political. So as an example "The X party of Canada has turned their backs on veterans". That would be political and out of place. However saying "The Government of Canada has turned their backs." Isn't political because the government isn't any one party or MP, it's the will of the people made manifest by proxy.

Unless you want to lower the definition of 'political' to any statement in the context of a group of people.

[Freakinoldguy]

Xort Xort:

How is saying the care modern veterans are getting is substandard political?

The new veterans charter was passed unanimously by parliament. Every political party and independent MP sitting at the time is equally to blame for the cost cutting drop in care and compensation.

The problem with the old system was that VAC was/is filled with lazy insensitive government drones more interested in the union benefits and pension than helping vets in need. The current problem is they still have the same chair filling drones, only now the government just wants to throw a single near impossible to appeal capped amount to make their obligation to the veteran care problem go away.

Depending on the exact nature of what was said it could be political. So as an example "The X party of Canada has turned their backs on veterans". That would be political and out of place. However saying "The Government of Canada has turned their backs." Isn't political because the government isn't any one party or MP, it's the will of the people made manifest by proxy.

Unless you want to lower the definition of 'political' to any statement in the context of a group of people.

I guess you didn't bother to read the whole article because if you had you'd have noticed that it wasn't her advocating a change to the Charter that was the real problem it was this:

But the president of the legion said it was Tankard's words about how she would vote that members felt were poorly chosen, and poorly timed.

As for your assertion that the old system was full of "VAC was/is filled with lazy insensitive government drones more interested in the union benefits and pension than helping vets in need" it's accurate but, to assume that it's changed for the better is just pure bullshit.

I worked on the Appeals panels as an Officer of the Court and for awhile you were right it did change. The Conservatives removed the political appointments and put ex military in amongst the lawyers as panel members then actually used the Charter properly where things like ties went to the vet but, like everything else political it slowly slid back to the way it was.

DVA and their cronies actually went after one ex military panel member who was to "Liberal" with his awards and in an attempt to discredit him published his medical records online for the entire world to see. Then, when they got caught they claimed that it was just an honest mistake. But, he wasn't rehired when his contract was up, just like most of the other ex military members of those appeal panels.

So it's right back to where it was before with the appeals members being political appointments beholding to the Gov't for their jobs and that means it's alot harder to get an award anymore, just like it was under the Liberals.

[Xort]

Freakinoldguy Freakinoldguy:

I guess you didn't bother to read the whole article because if you had you'd have noticed that it wasn't her advocating a change to the Charter that was the real problem it was this:

But the president of the legion said it was Tankard's words about how she would vote that members felt were poorly chosen, and poorly timed.

I had no quote to what she said, so I can't judge that or comment on that.

Did she say, "Next time I will vote for someone to protect veterans?" Who would that be? Every MP of every party supported the new system. Is voting for the NDP or Liberals or Green, or the Block Heads going to change anything? They all voted for it.

Or was it a bit more pointed, "The CPC has failed the veterans while using them to support their message."

If no names were named I think that skirts by on the razor's edge. Personal belief nothing more mind you, I won't disagree if you think she was wrong and I'm wrong in my weaseling around the point.

The problem is that it is a political issue and I'm not sure what day would be better than Remembrance Day to talk about veteran issues and how the political aspect has failed.

$1:

, to assume that it's changed for the better is just pure bullshit.

I don't think I gave that impression.
"The current problem is they still have the same chair filling drones, only now the government just wants to throw a single near impossible to appeal capped amount to make their obligation to the veteran care problem go away."

That's well as polite as I could put it, and I'm aware it's not a fully honest statement on my part taking into account the depth of the situation.

$1:

I worked on the Appeals panels as an Officer of the Court and for awhile you were right it did change. The Conservatives removed the political appointments and put ex military in amongst the lawyers as panel members then actually used the Charter properly where things like ties went to the vet but, like everything else political it slowly slid back to the way it was.

It would be almost better if it hadn't ever gotten better.

I personally have no business relation with VAC, so everything I've heard is 2nd hand from biased sources. I'd like to think that my BS filter is good enough to try and hash out some of the truth, I'm aware that the plural of anecdote isn't data. However, within the population of people I knew in the military that had to deal with the process of injury someone should have had a positive outcome.

Workers I know hurt in non military jobs seem to have a positive view of their treatment under worker injury programs. It's clearly possible to operate a government system for worker protection and have people happy with the system.

$1:

DVA and their cronies actually went after one ex military panel member who was to "Liberal" with his awards and in an attempt to discredit him published his medical records online for the entire world to see. Then, when they got caught they claimed that it was just an honest mistake. But, he wasn't rehired when his contract was up, just like most of the other ex military members of those appeal panels.

Again my mind can only say: Anecdote != to data, but that's more than a bit sad.

$1:

So it's right back to where it was before with the appeals members being political appointments beholding to the Gov't for their jobs and that means it's alot harder to get an award anymore, just like it was under the Liberals.

It doesn't seem like a fair solution is going to just happen up.

Maybe we do need people making the political point publicly.