[herbie]

Well you're the one putting your shoe on her.

I'm not claiming that's NOT what happened or that you are wrong, just pointing out you are making her actions fit your narrative.

[Thanos]

I think she got bullied and then badly fooled by some real professionals. But whatever, the deed is done.

[Sunnyways]

Thanos Thanos:

IYeah, she didn't pull a Mel Gibson rant or scream "Jews will not replace us!" outside of a synagogue but whatever. If the shoe fits wear it.

The only people I have ever seen on TV chanting that particular slogan looked a lot more like Trump voters than BDS enthusiasts. I had never encountered it before Charlottesville.

[Thanos]

Sunnyways Sunnyways:

Thanos Thanos:

IYeah, she didn't pull a Mel Gibson rant or scream "Jews will not replace us!" outside of a synagogue but whatever. If the shoe fits wear it.

The only people I have ever seen on TV chanting that particular slogan looked a lot more like Trump voters than BDS enthusiasts. I had never encountered it before Charlottesville.

Jew-hating left is not much different from Jew-hating right. BDS gets a bit of celebrity cachet that the alt-Reich doesn't but that's about all as far as any differences in intention or end goals are concerned. A BDS member wouldn't be caught dead marching with a tiki-torch in their hands saying stupid slogans out loud in public but also would have no problem at all being photographed getting a hug from a Hamas member who blew up a crowded rush-hour bus in Tel Aviv the week before.

[Sunnyways]

Thanos Thanos:

Sunnyways Sunnyways:

Thanos Thanos:

IYeah, she didn't pull a Mel Gibson rant or scream "Jews will not replace us!" outside of a synagogue but whatever. If the shoe fits wear it.

The only people I have ever seen on TV chanting that particular slogan looked a lot more like Trump voters than BDS enthusiasts. I had never encountered it before Charlottesville.

Jew-hating left is not much different from Jew-hating right. BDS gets a bit of celebrity cachet that the alt-Reich doesn't but that's about all as far as any differences in intention or end goals are concerned. A BDS member wouldn't be caught dead marching with a tiki-torch in their hands saying stupid slogans out loud in public but also would have no problem at all being photographed getting a hug from a Hamas member who blew up a crowded rush-hour bus in Tel Aviv the week before.

Firstly, you should acknowledge that the line quoted is an alt-right slogan, not a BDS one. You made a mistake there. You can say it does not matter but it is still factually incorrect. Am I right about that or not?

Secondly, the differences between the alt-right and BDS are many and obvious. The US alt-right is an ethnic movement; racism is the point and they would not deny it. BDS is not an ethnic movement; it includes people of all races and religions. Bigotry may be a product of what they do but it's not the starting point, any more than hating Afrikaners was the point of the anti-Apartheid movement.

[Thanos]

The end goal is the destruction of Israel. It means the same thing on a leftist BDS website as it does on a dozen alt-right ones. And the alt-right isn't contained to the US. With the internet nothing is containable anymore.

Detesting Jews isn't contained to one part of the spectrum. This insanity infects the left and the right almost equally. There's enough evidence to show that if Stalin had lived a couple more years instead of dying in 1953 he would have unleashed a second Holocaust in Russia and Eastern Europe because he wanted to rid communism of the Jews that were in middle-to-high level party positions. It might not have taken the same form as the Nazi one did with death camps and mass shootings but it would have certainly featured mass transport to the gulags and mass expulsions, both of which would have featured tens or hundreds of thousands more deaths.

[N_Fiddledog]

Sunnyways Sunnyways:

The US alt-right is an ethnic movement; racism is the point and they would not deny it.

Depends on what you're calling "Alt-right." I've heard people like Faith Goldi or Lauren Southern called alt-right. They're not.

But the right happens in layers. Those aware of that might try to make a distinction and settle for the term alt light for people like Goldi or Southern. Alt-lighters are nationalistic but not white nationalists. They're pro values and standards that traditionally kept the west strong, but they're not racist. They would strengthen the borders but not kick out all the brown people as those calling them "alt-right' would like you to believe.

Then you have the kind of meme trollers like the Milophiles or the Kekistanis. They don't necessarily have to have a right or a left. They can more just be in it for Lolz (as they say.)

There is a kind of Charlottesville fringe that is exactly what you'd like to point to as some sort significant right-wing movement. They're much smaller and more scattered than what you believe. However, the current hyper-attention of the mainstream media's strident calls and pointed fingers has been attracting more pliable dunderheads to them. If the left really wanted to defeat them they'd ignore them and they'd dissolve in entropy, but they don't. The regressive left wants a right-wing boogeyman.

I'm starting to think there's another layer though.

Have you heard the terms "civic nationalism?" Well these guys I'm going to tell you about aren't exactly that, but it's where they like to hang their hats while they subtly push farther to the fringe.

They're a layer between "Alt-light" and the alt-right fringers. They might have points, but they might be dangerous. In my head, I'm calling them the 'approach with caution' right.

They go through the motions of making supported arguments. They'll pepper their arguments with 'out their buttholes' trivia bits that have varying bits of import or credibility, but they won't cross over blatantly to the alt-right fringe with outright racism. It's more like they'll point at it and go "Hmmm..." They make arguments like conspiracy theorists and they can go there too. The other day I heard one considering how much might have been correct about Pizzagate.

They're not racists, or are they? They hide behind the trappings of free speech and under an umbrella of fabricated rationality they consider what the reasonable might self-censor.

It's like they'll slip in the racist buzzwords while appearing to be saying 'let's be intellectual about this.' They're quietly growing and might be dangerous. You guys thinking of yourself as moderate or mainstream are making a mistake by not noticing them with specificity.

If you'd like an example of how they can be persuasive and sneak in the racism while appearing to talk about something else. Go to the 34 minute mark of the one below.

[Sunnyways]

Thanos Thanos:

The end goal is the destruction of Israel. It means the same thing on a leftist BDS website as it does on a dozen alt-right ones. And the alt-right isn't contained to the US. With the internet nothing is containable anymore.

Detesting Jews isn't contained to one part of the spectrum. This insanity infects the left and the right almost equally. There's enough evidence to show that if Stalin had lived a couple more years instead of dying in 1953 he would have unleashed a second Holocaust in Russia and Eastern Europe because he wanted to rid communism of the Jews that were in middle-to-high level party positions. It might not have taken the same form as the Nazi one did with death camps and mass shootings but it would have certainly featured mass transport to the gulags and mass expulsions, both of which would have featured tens or hundreds of thousands more deaths.

Stalin was omnivorous in his appetite for victims; purging the enemy within was a constant obsession. The Doctors' Plot has some similarities to the Final Solution in its alleged design:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctors%27_plot

But the heartening aspect is how quickly it was abandoned, and even declared to be a fabrication, once Stalin died. Of course, in the land of the pogrom, anti-Semitism was not a new phenomenon.

[Sunnyways]

The West Bank Palestinians are unreasonable now but does that mean they should never have a state? If Bennett and his many friends in Israel and the US succeed in settling Area C and creating an 'autonomous' but non-state series of Palestinian Bantustans, the 1.1 state solution, we will clearly be in Apartheid territory to all but the blindest propagandists. That's no longer acceptable. At least the Australians, North Americans and even the Russians eventually gave their conquered nations the vote. The Afrikaners refused until their system was overturned.

[Sunnyways]

On the who is an alt-righter debate, I don't propose an inquisition. We must be free to discuss the level of immigration and its particular effect on working-class communities, for example, and where the maximum limit is - and there IS a limit as Malmö in Sweden has shown. There is also the reality that nearly all humans are aware of some tribal affinities stirring within themselves. What makes me more nervous is rows of marchers chanting threats in the dead of night beside their torches. That's a lot closer to violent action, to taking the law into your own hands. Those Charlottesville marchers struck fear into many communities, not just Jewish and African Americans, and recalled the hostility of the KKK to Catholics and Southen Europeans as well.