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PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2020 10:42 am
 


Title: Military intelligence probes far-right activity in Canadian Ranger unit
Category: Law & Order
Posted By: DrCaleb
Date: 2020-08-26 08:24:45
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2020 10:42 am
 


Racism, no evidence, treason, no evidence, hates Trudeau and his policies a ton of evidence. :oops:

Other than that there's really nothing here, even if they identify as part of the 3% movement. It's just a couple of people belonging to a sub component of the Reserves running their mouth on social media over their displeasure with Trudeau.

To fix this problem, enforce the same regulations that govern the Regular Force including the one that says there are, no political, racial or anti military or anti immigration social media posts allowed, period. And, if you belong to or join one of these groups while serving that's considered a "terrorist" organization be it either domestic or foreign you're out on your ass no questions asked. That also includes espousing the philosophies of these types of groups over social media.

But, despite the CBC's outrage this wasn't the case and was much ado about nothing especially since they're still apparently serving.


Last edited by Freakinoldguy on Wed Aug 26, 2020 10:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2020 10:49 am
 


Except for that reservist who crashed the gates of the PM and GG residence with a truck full of guns and ammunition . . . there's no evidence.

Oh! And that Patrik Mathews guy, who is actually a neo-nazi.

No evidence.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2020 10:57 am
 


Quote:
The Department of National Defence has revealed that more than a dozen members of the Canadian Armed Forces linked to hateful actions or groups have been warned, disciplined or ordered to take counselling, but allowed to remain in uniform.

The revelation follows months of questions about the fate of 30 active service members identified in a military-intelligence report last year as belonging to a hate group or having otherwise made discriminatory or racist statements. Six more have since been added to the list.


https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/some-mili ... -1.4690800

Nope. No evidence.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2020 10:58 am
 


Quote:
A white Canadian Forces reservist who targeted black soldiers with racial abuse won’t face any disciplinary measures because the young man felt stressed out during his military training, says an army general.

The fact the 17-year-old reservist’s father is a senior officer in the army reserve doesn’t have anything to do with the decision not to formally punish the soldier, according to Brig.-Gen. Jocelyn Paul, who commands the 4th Canadian Division, which is responsible for army operations in Ontario


https://nationalpost.com/news/white-res ... my-decides

Nothing to see here. Move along, move along.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2020 11:07 am
 


DrCaleb wrote:
Except for that reservist who crashed the gates of the PM and GG residence with a truck full of guns and ammunition . . . there's no evidence.

Oh! And that Patrik Mathews guy, who is actually a neo-nazi.

No evidence.


ROTFL

Those are two out of how many? The military is a microcosm of society so it goes without saying that you're going to get these types of people and the thing is that you have to weed them out before they get in or as soon as they openly start advocating.

There have been approximately 600,000 Canadians who've served since the Korean war and the CBC brings up 2 of these assholes to show that there's a rampant problem with systemic white supremacists in the military. :roll:

But here's a thought. If you can paint all the military by the actions of a few then allow me to point out that we can paint all Canadians as a nation of murderers because some Canadians have committed murder. See how easy it is?

But if these two were so bad and such a threat why are they still serving unless of course it's because the Canadian Military is aiding and abetting Neo Nazi's.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2020 11:08 am
 


Back in the 70s, they were court-martialed, sent to military prison, kicked out of the forces and then escorted off base where the local police were waiting for them... all for smoking pot.

I knew some guys who were told to remove any pro "Québec separatist mouvement" stickers or plates from their car when they entered the base at Valcartier. :lol:


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2020 11:18 am
 


Freakinoldguy wrote:
DrCaleb wrote:
Except for that reservist who crashed the gates of the PM and GG residence with a truck full of guns and ammunition . . . there's no evidence.

Oh! And that Patrik Mathews guy, who is actually a neo-nazi.

No evidence.


ROTFL

Those are two out of how many?


You read the other articles, right? It's far more than two.

Quote:
After CBC News obtained the September briefing note, the Canadian Armed Forces (CAF) provided an updated list of more than 50 cases of alleged hateful and extremist conduct recorded between 2013-2018. The cases include accusations of white supremacist views, neo-Nazi comments and racist or anti-LGBTQ comments.


Freakinoldguy wrote:
The military is a microcosm of society so it goes without saying that you're going to get these types of people and the thing is that you have to weed them out before they get in or as soon as they openly start advocating.

There have been approximately 600,000 Canadians who've served since the Korean war and the CBC brings up 2 of these assholes to show that there's a rampant problem with systemic white supremacists in the military. :roll:


It wasn't the CBC, it was the Military. CBC is just reporting it.

Freakinoldguy wrote:
But here's a thought. If you can paint all the military by the actions of a few then allow me to point out that we can paint all Canadians as a nation of murderers because some Canadians have committed murder. See how easy it is?


Your words, not mine.

Freakinoldguy wrote:
But if these two were so bad and such a threat why are they still serving unless of course it's because the Canadian Military is aiding and abetting Neo Nazi's.


Matthews is in jail.

Again, above articles:

Quote:
Cases tend to be handled behind closed doors, often with the accused agreeing to leave the ranks


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2020 11:24 am
 


DrCaleb wrote:



Like I said you're going to get these cases from time to time. When I was the Base Disciplinarian at Naden the MP's came to me with a case that they'd made against one of the new reserve recruits from HMCS Raddison. The guy was a pedophile who enticed young street kids to come behind a downtown church and have sex for money or drugs. Well they got a video of him doing this and came to us to levy charges.

Long story short. The pervert was sent to court martial and punted as soon as he finished his cell time. So, unless something has drastically changed within the Military and Military justice system I'd say that in these other cases there was no real case of "extremist" conduct and if there was, it wasn't bad enough to warrant a tribunal. It was likely also corrected immediately though channels other than the military justice system.

But I do find it hilarious that news groups like the CBC keep bringing up these occasional cases as proof of systemic racism in the military. I'm just surprised that they didn't bring up the usual media claim of rampant sexual misconduct against the male, but that was likely because one of the accused was a woman.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2020 11:32 am
 


DrCaleb wrote:
Freakinoldguy wrote:
DrCaleb wrote:
Except for that reservist who crashed the gates of the PM and GG residence with a truck full of guns and ammunition . . . there's no evidence.

Oh! And that Patrik Mathews guy, who is actually a neo-nazi.

No evidence.


ROTFL

Those are two out of how many?


You read the other articles, right? It's far more than two.

Quote:
After CBC News obtained the September briefing note, the Canadian Armed Forces (CAF) provided an updated list of more than 50 cases of alleged hateful and extremist conduct recorded between 2013-2018. The cases include accusations of white supremacist views, neo-Nazi comments and racist or anti-LGBTQ comments.


Freakinoldguy wrote:
The military is a microcosm of society so it goes without saying that you're going to get these types of people and the thing is that you have to weed them out before they get in or as soon as they openly start advocating.

There have been approximately 600,000 Canadians who've served since the Korean war and the CBC brings up 2 of these assholes to show that there's a rampant problem with systemic white supremacists in the military. :roll:


It wasn't the CBC, it was the Military. CBC is just reporting it.

Freakinoldguy wrote:
But here's a thought. If you can paint all the military by the actions of a few then allow me to point out that we can paint all Canadians as a nation of murderers because some Canadians have committed murder. See how easy it is?


Your words, not mine.

Freakinoldguy wrote:
But if these two were so bad and such a threat why are they still serving unless of course it's because the Canadian Military is aiding and abetting Neo Nazi's.


Matthews is in jail.

Again, above articles:

Quote:
Cases tend to be handled behind closed doors, often with the accused agreeing to leave the ranks



So it's still how many out of the 600,000?

But here's a reason why the problem still exists no matter how small it is.

Quote:
But until the Canadian Forces can define “hateful conduct” it is hard to discipline soldiers and keep good statistics about how many are involved in white supremacist and far right activities, Brig.-Gen. Sylvain Menard, chief of staff operations for military personnel, told the CBC in a recent interview.


https://ottawacitizen.com/news/national ... ul-conduct

So not only does the military not know how many white supremacists they have serving apparently they can't discipline them. ROTFL

Well I'm sorry but the code of service discipline is quite explicit about "conduct to the prejudice of good order and discipline" and if it isn't being applied for legal reason look to the PM's father who's 1982 Charter of Rights and Freedoms superseded the National Defence Act in essence making military members the same as civies. So, while it should be a no brainer that people who think and act like these assholes are punished it's apparently no longer possible thanks to civilian interference in our justice system.

So if you want to fix the system. Get rid of the Charter for military members and reinstate the National Defense Act which would put an end to the kid gloves approach to dealing with assholes. Otherwise they should shut the fuck up because it's the Liberal gov't which created the problem they're accusing the military of having.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2020 11:42 am
 


Freakinoldguy wrote:
So not only does the military not know how many white supremacists they have serving apparently they can't discipline them. ROTFL


So if the military doesn't know how many there are, but there are over 50 complaints on file as of 2018, that is more than two I suppose. So they know they have at least 50.

Freakinoldguy wrote:
thanks to civilian interference in our justice system.


Interference? You do know it is the job of Parliament to write the laws that the Justice system follows, right? Or were you suggesting the Military should write our laws? [huh]

Freakinoldguy wrote:
So if you want to fix the system. Get rid of the Charter for military members and reinstate the National Defense Act which would put an end to the kid gloves approach to dealing with assholes. Otherwise they should shut the fuck up because it's the Liberal gov't which created the problem they're accusing the military of having.


I agree to a point; but that ends charter protections for serving the military. You shouldn't lose your charter rights because you choose to serve.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2020 12:16 pm
 


DrCaleb wrote:
Freakinoldguy wrote:
So not only does the military not know how many white supremacists they have serving apparently they can't discipline them. ROTFL


So if the military doesn't know how many there are, but there are over 50 complaints on file as of 2018, that is more than two I suppose. So they know they have at least 50.

Freakinoldguy wrote:
thanks to civilian interference in our justice system.


Interference? You do know it is the job of Parliament to write the laws that the Justice system follows, right? Or were you suggesting the Military should write our laws? [huh]

Freakinoldguy wrote:
So if you want to fix the system. Get rid of the Charter for military members and reinstate the National Defense Act which would put an end to the kid gloves approach to dealing with assholes. Otherwise they should shut the fuck up because it's the Liberal gov't which created the problem they're accusing the military of having.


I agree to a point; but that ends charter protections for serving the military. You shouldn't lose your charter rights because you choose to serve.


Are you trying to put words into my mouth? Nobody said the military should make law in Canada, just for the military.

The military isn't civie street and therefore shouldn't be treated the same and for the record you know what you're getting into before you sign on the dotted line. The National Defense Act as laid out was fair but strict. It didn't infringe on your rights if you committed an offense as a matter of fact it was actually a better system with more latitude for the investigators, Trial Officers and Court Martial's than we have now.

But like life, once you let lawyers get a foot in the door you're fucked. They now run the military not the military hierarchy. FFS they even tried to have a lawyer posted to each ship so they could "assist" the CO, XO and Cox'n in drafting charges and carrying out trials so it didn't infringe on the accused's Charter Rights. Changing a system that wasn't broken and has worked since the first neanderthal found a log and declared himself First Sea Lord was ridiculous. ROTFL

But now for some reason people seem to think that we can have an effective military fighting force by using our lax civilian discipline model. Sorry but it doesn't work and if people hadn't served under both systems they wouldn't know they likely wouldn't know why.

Military discipline by necessity must be draconian and absolute which isn't what's happening now and might be why some of these clowns are being allowed to remain in the military far past their expiry date. Because, as we all know their charter rights along with their feelings might be hurt if they were to be punished properly.

As for the 50 people "accused" of these types of acts. Remembering that's out of approximately 600,000 veterans and still serving members since the Korean war means that it's a 0.008333333333333333 percent of members who should be tossed and or charged. Not a very large number is it?

I also have no doubt that there were others before them that went unpunished and there will be others after them but, without a fitting military justice system to deal with it this problem will continue till someone comes to their senses and realises you can't treat a military member like a civilian.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2020 12:52 pm
 


People post the darnedest things on Facebook, don’t they? For a serving member of the armed forces to make any of this vitriol public defies belief. People seem to think that because Facebook pretends it’s not a publisher then you’re not really publishing material on their site. Thirty years ago, how many soldiers would have agreed to contributing to a book full of such opinions? We have sociopaths and white nationalists in the armed forces, as we do in virtually every other walk of life, so it’s reasonable to assume there’s a risk and we should be vigilant about it, particularly when being armed is part of the job.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2020 5:35 pm
 


Freakinoldguy wrote:
Are you trying to put words into my mouth? Nobody said the military should make law in Canada, just for the military.


Just asking a question, because your words "civilian interference in our justice system" were unclear - if civilians are not part of that justice system then whose justice system are you referring to, or if your wording was off.

Freakinoldguy wrote:
As for the 50 people "accused" of these types of acts. Remembering that's out of approximately 600,000 veterans and still serving members since the Korean war means that it's a 0.008333333333333333 percent of members who should be tossed and or charged. Not a very large number is it?


Your math is a bit off. Those 50 people, as I quoted, were for the five years, 2013 to 2018. How many were enlisted then? 70,000?

I also quoted that an unknown number were encouraged to resign, so we don't know the real number.

And no one is trying to paint the entire military as right wing extremists, except you. Your words, not mine.


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