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PostPosted: Sun Apr 26, 2020 10:55 am
 


This one's really odd coming from him.



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PostPosted: Sun Apr 26, 2020 12:17 pm
 


Didn't see this here...

I just posted the story myself. Oops.

It's getting a lot of attention:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-eart ... SKCN2231U8

https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelshe ... 7a99a66c96

https://www.rollingstone.com/movies/mov ... ns-987659/

For those who don't know it's basically 'Alternate Energy is an evil creation from the free market - gotta be bad because it's capitalism - kind of thing.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 26, 2020 12:55 pm
 


Comments on Twitterverse.... :mrgreen:



https://mobile.twitter.com/EcoSenseNow/ ... 0925804544


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 28, 2020 3:50 pm
 


Ya, 3rd time this film was posted. :)

international-politics-f2/planet-of-the-humans-t124113.html

May seems to be quite upset over it

https://www.greenparty.ca/en/blog/2020- ... ful-film-0


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 28, 2020 6:01 pm
 


It's not really "green" when all they're doing is shifting the environmental burden.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 28, 2020 6:09 pm
 


Sadly it's M. Moore. He's playing fast and loose with the facts as always.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 28, 2020 7:41 pm
 




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PostPosted: Tue Apr 28, 2020 7:53 pm
 


Scape Scape:



Maybe she'd be a little more amenable to Michael Moores position about "green energy" if we shipped her to the Congo and forced her to dig alongside the children who are dying to supply us with the cobalt for our electric car and cell phone batteries.

https://www.theguardian.com/global-deve ... ys-amnesty

$1:
Electric cars are getting cheaper and their sales are on the rise, but their future success may depend on ditching a key ingredient: the heavy metal cobalt.

The mineral is used in the lithium-ion batteries that power electric cars, and demand is steadily rising. A new analysis by Elsa Olivetti at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology and her colleagues has found there may be cobalt shortages if we don’t start refining and recycling it more efficiently or in greater quantities.

They estimate that global demand for cobalt will rise to between 235,000 and 430,000 tonnes by 2030 – an amount that is at least 1.6 times the world’s current capacity to refine the metal, as of 2016 figures.


Lithium-ion batteries used in electric cars and other consumer electronics account for about half of all cobalt demand, and the demand for these batteries is projected to more than quadruple over the next decade.

Cobalt is often produced as a by-product of copper or nickel mining. As such, it is affected by fluctuations in the demand and pricing of those metals. It is also expensive, costing around $33,000 per tonne.



Read more: https://www.newscientist.com/article/22 ... z6KxyttSnU


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 28, 2020 8:00 pm
 


She did respond to the rare earth issue here:

$1:
The film sets up a number of straw men. Gibbs focuses a great deal on the false notion that bio-energy from wood chips is promoted by climate activists. It is true that in earlier times, Bill McKibben thought renewable forests and bio-energy replacing coal was a solution. The film (dishonestly) claims he changed his mind once their film was out. In fact, Bill McKibben has attacked bio-energy for years.

Gibbs and Zehner set up the false notion that the bulk of renewable energy involves burning wood-chips and deforestation. That has occurred to an extent and is opposed by climate activists.

Their next straw man is that if we rely on renewables the only way to keep the lights on if it is raining or the wind isn’t blowing is from back-up fossil fuels, or from batteries with lithium and rare earth or by keeping linked to the grid – as though that is a bad thing.

The grid is for storage. That is our premise in Mission: Possible. Feed into the grid when renewables produce above local demand; draw from the grid when renewables drop. That is the way excess wind energy from Denmark is sold to Norway. Norway stores the excess, not in large batteries, but through storage in existing reservoirs, pumping water up to the reservoir using the wind energy from Denmark to then releasing it to generate hydroelectricity when the wind is not blowing. This is a major, low-impact storage system. It is why one core proposal in Mission: Possible is for a national grid to move green electricity from province to province.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 28, 2020 8:59 pm
 


Scape Scape:
She did respond to the rare earth issue here:

$1:
The film sets up a number of straw men. Gibbs focuses a great deal on the false notion that bio-energy from wood chips is promoted by climate activists. It is true that in earlier times, Bill McKibben thought renewable forests and bio-energy replacing coal was a solution. The film (dishonestly) claims he changed his mind once their film was out. In fact, Bill McKibben has attacked bio-energy for years.

Gibbs and Zehner set up the false notion that the bulk of renewable energy involves burning wood-chips and deforestation. That has occurred to an extent and is opposed by climate activists.

Their next straw man is that if we rely on renewables the only way to keep the lights on if it is raining or the wind isn’t blowing is from back-up fossil fuels, or from batteries with lithium and rare earth or by keeping linked to the grid – as though that is a bad thing.

The grid is for storage. That is our premise in Mission: Possible. Feed into the grid when renewables produce above local demand; draw from the grid when renewables drop. That is the way excess wind energy from Denmark is sold to Norway. Norway stores the excess, not in large batteries, but through storage in existing reservoirs, pumping water up to the reservoir using the wind energy from Denmark to then releasing it to generate hydroelectricity when the wind is not blowing. This is a major, low-impact storage system. It is why one core proposal in Mission: Possible is for a national grid to move green electricity from province to province.


I don't see the correlation between that statement and the fact that in order to address the the issues means we either have to find a renewable resource that doesn't require us to destroy the planet or kill off a bunch of children in poor countries so we can live like kings and carry on down this destructive dangerous path that might be worse.

We are getting near technology that will allow us to use oil and not create greenhouse gasses. They've discovered a way to create carbon negative oil and all people need to do now is get behind it like some did for all the other "green energy" plans, including the ones that don't work or are destroying the planet.

$1:
The startups have each been developing a technology called direct air capture. The idea is to build machines that can filter the air and capture only carbon dioxide molecules. If those molecules aren’t released into the atmosphere, the result is negative emissions. So far every startup has showed the technology works. The next hurdle is to scale the technology and lower its cost.


https://qz.com/1638096/the-story-behind ... ure-plant/


The only problem is that it won't sit well with the environmentalists who hate big oil. But if they can do this on the scale we need and the environmentalists still fight it, it will at least expose their hypocrisy and show that alot of the people in the "green movement " aren't about saving the planet but about taking power.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 28, 2020 9:19 pm
 


Freakinoldguy Freakinoldguy:
I don't see the correlation between that statement and the fact that in order to address the the issues means we either have to find a renewable resource that doesn't require us to destroy the planet or kill off a bunch of children in poor countries so we can live like kings and carry on down this destructive dangerous path that might be worse.


Sounds like a dare :) The premise of Moore's Movie was to reduce consumption as that would be more effective that the current green movement. They say they do not offer solutions but are taking a frank look at the situation. From what I understand with the green plan is they endorse this idea and that lowering of consumption will in turn create a surplus of the rare earths required to create this storage option.

https://www.greenparty.ca/en/platform/c ... ction-plan

Could be wrong but that's my guess.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 28, 2020 10:18 pm
 


Scape Scape:
Freakinoldguy Freakinoldguy:
I don't see the correlation between that statement and the fact that in order to address the the issues means we either have to find a renewable resource that doesn't require us to destroy the planet or kill off a bunch of children in poor countries so we can live like kings and carry on down this destructive dangerous path that might be worse.


Sounds like a dare :) The premise of Moore's Movie was to reduce consumption as that would be more effective that the current green movement. They say they do not offer solutions but are taking a frank look at the situation. From what I understand with the green plan is they endorse this idea and that lowering of consumption will in turn create a surplus of the rare earths required to create this storage option.

https://www.greenparty.ca/en/platform/c ... ction-plan

Could be wrong but that's my guess.


R=UP

Thanks. But given the greens "we hate oil option" I'm sticking with big oil till they figure out if the greens ideas are anywhere near feasible. Especially since it's pure logistics that when there's more demand there's more consumption. So, how can they claim lowering consumption will lead to more storage when the worlds population continues to explode? Who becomes the haves and who becomes the have not's because you can't have an ever increasing population living the type of lifestyles we are living now without someone doing without.

At best the green mandate seems like a stop gap measure. Unless of course they've started thinking about using Eugenics like programs on an industrial scale to reduce the planets population which, is the only way their plan might work.

And, to be honest, the only green weenie with enough testicular fortitude to tell the world the truth was Bernie Sanders. He basically admitted that we have to many freakin people to continue to have the planet support us. Sadly it took one of their own to point out the obvious and look where his honesty got him. XD

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4 ... on-control


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2020 1:55 am
 


Did you know that if you raise the standard of living you lower the birth rate?

https://youtu.be/hVimVzgtD6w

That right there is the key. If we become more efficient with what we have and make it available to more economies of scale kick in. Ever see the movie downsized? The one where people shrink themselves to a few inches high? They did that to save money.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2020 6:19 am
 


Freakinoldguy Freakinoldguy:
I don't see the correlation between that statement and the fact that in order to address the the issues means we either have to find a renewable resource that doesn't require us to destroy the planet or kill off a bunch of children in poor countries so we can live like kings and carry on down this destructive dangerous path that might be worse.


Most of the rare earths and minerals that are used in our high tech devices don't come from the DR Congo. Australia and South America are where the majority come from.

The DR Congo and similar places with terrible standards are held up by the pro-oil/anti-progress crowd to try to appeal to people's emotions.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2020 9:34 am
 


ROTFL

$1:
Michael Moore’s green energy takedown—worse than Netflix’s Goop series?

Planet of the Humans is deeply useless. Watch anything else.

Let’s say you want to make a documentary about a complex and important topic. You could spend a lot of time on research—developing a complete picture of things, identifying scientists to interview, and figuring out how to give viewers the context necessary to understand the most nuanced issues. Or, you could just go point your camera at stuff until you have an hour and 40 minutes of footage, lay down a voiceover, upload that baby to YouTube, and call it a day.

Planet of the Humans, a documentary made by Jeff Gibbs and Michael Moore, falls into the latter category.

The topic of the film—released on YouTube just before Earth Day to throw shade on what it views as a corporate takeover of the day—is green energy. But if you’re thinking you might learn something about green energy from a film-length treatment of the topic, think again. The basic formula is this: Gibbs reveals that he once thought renewable sources of energy were fairy-dust perfect, with no environmental impact of any kind, but he learns that there is some impact and so declares that they are as bad as or worse than fossil fuels.


https://arstechnica.com/science/2020/04 ... op-series/


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