[Newsbot]

Title: New Orleans takes down 1st of 4 Confederate statues
Category: History
Posted By: Hyack
Date: 2017-04-26 00:42:56

[GreenTiger]

I would leave up Robert E Lee and remove the rest of them.

[DrCaleb]

Leave them all. Hiding history doesn't change it.

[BartSimpson]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Leave them all. Hiding history doesn't change it.

This.

Next up we can redevelop all that land that's being wasted on Holocaust memorials.

[xerxes]

GreenTiger GreenTiger:

I would leave up Robert E Lee and remove the rest of them.

My thoughts as well. This first though I'm surprised was still up. A memorial to a white rebellion? Give me a break.

[Public_Domain]

cool. can we get rid of the ones honouring the slaughter of natives?

how many columbus statues are out there?

[BartSimpson]

xerxes xerxes:

A memorial to a white rebellion? Give me a break.

Yet the memorials to the white rebellion of 1775-1783 are A-Okay.


...for now.

[fifeboy]

History---teach it, remember it, warts and crowns, don't hide it!

[BeaverFever]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Leave them all. Hiding history doesn't change it.

This.

Next up we can redevelop all that land that's being wasted on Holocaust memorials.

So you'll support putting all those statues of Saddam and Stalin back up, huh? And wondering why no statues of Hitler?

There's a difference between memorializing tragedies like the holocaust and celebrating the people responsible for them as heroes.

Perhaps they could keep the statues but clarify that they reflect history's villains instead of it's heroes. Perhaps a quote from Eichmann in Jersualem: A report on the banality of evil:


- "The trouble....was precisely that so many were like him, and that the many were neither perverted nor sadistic, that they were, and still are, terribly and terrifyingly normal. From the viewpoint of our legal institutions and of our moral standards of judgment, this normality was much more terrifying than all the atrocities put together, for it implied.... that this new type of criminal, who is in actual fact hostis generis humani, commits his crimes under circumstances that make it well-nigh impossible for him to know or to feel that he is doing wrong."

- "What stuck in the minds of these men who had become murderers was simply the notion of being involved in something historic, grandiose, unique ("a great task that occurs once in two thousand years")..."

[herbie]

fifeboy fifeboy:

History---teach it, remember it, warts and crowns, don't hide it!

Nor do you celebrate and honour ignorance and injustice.
Move the statue from the middle of the town square to beside the lavatories and add a plaque explaining they might've been a historical figure but stood for something repulsive.

[BartSimpson]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

So you'll support putting all those statues of...Stalin back up, huh?

Not all of them were taken down so are you going to head over to Russia and Georgia and state your righteous indignation to them?

See, Stalin is both part of Russian history and he enjoys some respect among the Russians for his victory over Germany in what the Russians still call The Great Patriotic War.

Likewise the leaders of the South are part of US history and they enjoy some respect in both Southern and Northern circles for being willing to sacrifice for their principles. And while simple minds like yours think the war was about slavery it wasn't.

"My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union; and what I forbear, I forbear because I do not believe it would help to save the Union. I shall do less whenever I shall believe what I am doing hurts the cause, and I shall do more whenever I shall believe doing more will help the cause."

- The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln edited by Roy P. Basler, Volume V, "Letter to Horace Greeley" (August 22, 1862), p. 388.

Also, in the 20th century Congress passed a series of laws that were aimed at reconciliation between North and South.

Public Law 85-425 made all Confederate veterans into veterans of the United States forces and granted pensions to any such veterans alive in 1958 when the law was passed.

http://uscode.house.gov/statutes/pl/85/425.pdf

The statues are then of US veterans who served their country honorably.

(P.L. 38, 59th Congress, Chap. 631-34 Stat. 56) provided for the War Department to furnish headstones to CSA veterans who were buried in US National Cemeteries.

Also the regalia of the Confederacy (inclusive of medals, flags, unit banners, uniforms, rank insignia, etc.) were adopted into the canon of US regalia during the Presidency of Theodore Roosevelt and this was in recognition of the part that CSA veterans played in the conduct of the Spanish-American War.

President Eisenhower gave a specific statement on the Civil War and reconciliation:

$1:

By the President of the United States of America ~ A Proclamation

The years 1961 to 1965 will mark the one-hundredth anniversary of the American Civil War.

That war was America's most tragic experience. But like most truly great tragedies, it carries with it an enduring lesson and a profound inspiration. It was a demonstration of heroism and sacrifice by men and women of both sides who valued principle above life itself and whose devotion to duty is a part of our Nation's noblest tradition.

Both sections of our now magnificently reunited country sent into their armies men who became soldiers as good as any who ever fought under any flag. Military history records nothing finer than the courage and spirit displayed at such battles as Chickamauga, Antietam, Kennesaw Mountain, and Gettysburg. That America could produce men so valiant and so enduring is a matter for deep and abiding pride.

The same spirit on the part of the people at home supported and strengthened those soldiers through four years of great trial. That a Nation which contained hardly more than thirty million people, North and South together, could sustain six hundred thousand deaths without faltering is a lasting testimonial to something unconquerable in the American spirit. And that a transcending sense of unity and larger common purpose could, in the end, cause the men and women who had suffered so greatly to close ranks once the contest ended and to go on together to build a greater, freer, and happier America must be a source of inspiration as long as our country may last.

By a joint resolution approved on September 7, 1957 (71 Stat. 626), the Congress established the Civil War Centennial Commission to prepare plans and programs for the nationwide observances of the one-hundredth anniversary of the Civil War, and requested the President to issue proclamations inviting the people of the United States to participate in those observances.

Now, Therefore, I, Dwight D. Eisenhower, President of the United States of America, do hereby invite all of the people of our country to take a direct and active part in the Centennial of the Civil War.

I request all units and agencies of government--Federal, State, and local--and their officials to encourage, foster, and participate in Centennial observances. And I especially urge our Nation's schools and colleges, its libraries and museums, its churches and religious bodies, its civic, service, and patriotic organizations, its learned and professional societies, its arts, sciences, and industries, and its informational media, to plan and carry out their own appropriate Centennial observances during the years 1961 to 1965; all to the end of enriching our knowledge and appreciation of this momentous chapter in our Nation's history and of making this memorable period truly a Centennial for all Americans.

In Witness Whereof, I have hereunto set my hand and caused the Seal of the United States of America to be affixed.

DONE at the City of Washington this sixth day of December in the year of our Lord nineteen hundred and sixty, and of the Independence of the United States of America the one hundred and eighty-fifth.

DWIGHT D. EISENHOWER

In the US National Cathedral a window featuring US & CS soldiers with crossed flags (symbolizing unity) was placed as part of reconciliation. Sadly, it's been removed.

In short; an awful lot of effort went into reconciliation between the North and South and now ignorant fucktards like yourself are picking at old wounds.

So now maybe you'd like it if we take down the headstones of Canadians who are buried in the US and who served in the Revolutionary War and War of 1812? How about we pick that old wound for you?

What if I go find one of those graves and piss on it? After all, those troops were serving a colonial empire so fuck them, right?

See how you feel? Now how do you think a lot of people in the South feel when their ancestors are being pissed on?

[ShepherdsDog]

Correctangular me if I'm wrong, but didn't Lee free his slaves before Grant and Sherman?

[fifeboy]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

So you'll support putting all those statues of...Stalin back up, huh?

Not all of them were taken down so are you going to head over to Russia and Georgia and state your righteous indignation to them?

See, Stalin is both part of Russian history and he enjoys some respect among the Russians for his victory over Germany in what the Russians still call The Great Patriotic War.

Likewise the leaders of the South are part of US history and they enjoy some respect in both Southern and Northern circles for being willing to sacrifice for their principles. And while simple minds like yours think the war was about slavery it wasn't.

"My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union; and what I forbear, I forbear because I do not believe it would help to save the Union. I shall do less whenever I shall believe what I am doing hurts the cause, and I shall do more whenever I shall believe doing more will help the cause."

- The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln edited by Roy P. Basler, Volume V, "Letter to Horace Greeley" (August 22, 1862), p. 388.

Also, in the 20th century Congress passed a series of laws that were aimed at reconciliation between North and South.

Public Law 85-425 made all Confederate veterans into veterans of the United States forces and granted pensions to any such veterans alive in 1958 when the law was passed.

http://uscode.house.gov/statutes/pl/85/425.pdf

The statues are then of US veterans who served their country honorably.

(P.L. 38, 59th Congress, Chap. 631-34 Stat. 56) provided for the War Department to furnish headstones to CSA veterans who were buried in US National Cemeteries.

Also the regalia of the Confederacy (inclusive of medals, flags, unit banners, uniforms, rank insignia, etc.) were adopted into the canon of US regalia during the Presidency of Theodore Roosevelt and this was in recognition of the part that CSA veterans played in the conduct of the Spanish-American War.

President Eisenhower gave a specific statement on the Civil War and reconciliation:

$1:

By the President of the United States of America ~ A Proclamation

The years 1961 to 1965 will mark the one-hundredth anniversary of the American Civil War.

That war was America's most tragic experience. But like most truly great tragedies, it carries with it an enduring lesson and a profound inspiration. It was a demonstration of heroism and sacrifice by men and women of both sides who valued principle above life itself and whose devotion to duty is a part of our Nation's noblest tradition.

Both sections of our now magnificently reunited country sent into their armies men who became soldiers as good as any who ever fought under any flag. Military history records nothing finer than the courage and spirit displayed at such battles as Chickamauga, Antietam, Kennesaw Mountain, and Gettysburg. That America could produce men so valiant and so enduring is a matter for deep and abiding pride.

The same spirit on the part of the people at home supported and strengthened those soldiers through four years of great trial. That a Nation which contained hardly more than thirty million people, North and South together, could sustain six hundred thousand deaths without faltering is a lasting testimonial to something unconquerable in the American spirit. And that a transcending sense of unity and larger common purpose could, in the end, cause the men and women who had suffered so greatly to close ranks once the contest ended and to go on together to build a greater, freer, and happier America must be a source of inspiration as long as our country may last.

By a joint resolution approved on September 7, 1957 (71 Stat. 626), the Congress established the Civil War Centennial Commission to prepare plans and programs for the nationwide observances of the one-hundredth anniversary of the Civil War, and requested the President to issue proclamations inviting the people of the United States to participate in those observances.

Now, Therefore, I, Dwight D. Eisenhower, President of the United States of America, do hereby invite all of the people of our country to take a direct and active part in the Centennial of the Civil War.

I request all units and agencies of government--Federal, State, and local--and their officials to encourage, foster, and participate in Centennial observances. And I especially urge our Nation's schools and colleges, its libraries and museums, its churches and religious bodies, its civic, service, and patriotic organizations, its learned and professional societies, its arts, sciences, and industries, and its informational media, to plan and carry out their own appropriate Centennial observances during the years 1961 to 1965; all to the end of enriching our knowledge and appreciation of this momentous chapter in our Nation's history and of making this memorable period truly a Centennial for all Americans.

In Witness Whereof, I have hereunto set my hand and caused the Seal of the United States of America to be affixed.

DONE at the City of Washington this sixth day of December in the year of our Lord nineteen hundred and sixty, and of the Independence of the United States of America the one hundred and eighty-fifth.

DWIGHT D. EISENHOWER

In the US National Cathedral a window featuring US & CS soldiers with crossed flags (symbolizing unity) was placed as part of reconciliation. Sadly, it's been removed.

In short; an awful lot of effort went into reconciliation between the North and South and now ignorant fucktards like yourself are picking at old wounds.

So now maybe you'd like it if we take down the headstones of Canadians who are buried in the US and who served in the Revolutionary War and War of 1812? How about we pick that old wound for you?

What if I go find one of those graves and piss on it? After all, those troops were serving a colonial empire so fuck them, right?

See how you feel? Now how do you think a lot of people in the South feel when their ancestors are being pissed on?

Again, I have to agree with Bart. I went through gr. 2-12 in what was a civil war "border state." In history and civics classes we were taught that the leaders of the South were wrong but honourable men who conducted themselves as would be expected. Where and when i lived the "Reb" flag was not waved but seen as a symbol of the disagreements that led to that horrible war.

[ShepherdsDog]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Lee free his slaves before either Grant or Sherman?

[xerxes]

No is suggesting that they dishonour the confederate soldiers. That's why I said they should leave up the statue of Robert Lee, who despite fighting for the wrong side, is easily one of the finest commanders in US history. The same goes for most of the confederate generals, save for N.B Forrest of course who's post-war life was rather coloured....

But a monument to an attempted uprising to restore the old white supremacist order? Or a monument to Jefferson Davis the leader of the traitorous south? I say nay. Or at least change their location and tone. Change them from memorials to what they have in Germany with war and holocaust instances. The German word, denkmal, doesn't translate too well but it's meant as more as a point of reflection of shit that went down in the past. The same should apply to confederate memorials. Acknowledge the past but recognize that the confederacy was on the wrong side of history and fought for the horrible institution of slavery.