[Thanos]

No internet and no "special" stress-therapy brownies = Thanos go crazy.

[herbie]

Went to Home Depot, the bill was say $19.15 so I handed her a $20. A second later I said wait and gave her 15c too. She's already punched in the 20... couldn't add up 85 +15 in her head. Got out a calculator....
people in line begin rumbling.
She hands me a twoonie and a quarter. Like how in hell\s name did she come up with that. So I got pissed and handed her the quarter and another loonie back and said she gave me too much change.
She starts berating me telling me she can't take a tip. Screws up her till count.
She was so rude I asked her to call her supervisor. Before I could talk, the bitch started her fucked up explanation. I waited and told the supervisor the bill is $19.15, I gave her $20.15 she only owes me a dollar.
The supervisor pulls out a calculator fucks around with it for 5 minutes and hands me the twoonie. Take the damn twoonie, she snarls.
So I did. Both of them were in their fifties.
An now every goddam time I go there I make sure I have lots of coins so I can toss some in and get an even 1,2 or 5 back...

[herbie]

BTW I grew up in Burnaby - East Van.
I'm used to tossing in the extra coins when I bought smokes and watching the 7 year old daughter at the Chinese grocery store counting out the correct change instantly.

[xerxes]

Thanos Thanos:

Big deal. I never bought into this crap, which mostly comes from people who don't use math at all in their daily lives anyway, that someone should be able to do 100% correct math in their brains without a calculator for their entire lives. It's BS and it puts too much stress on the kids who are just like every other generation before them in that when they're adults 95% are going to have jobs that have no math at all in them. It's just elitist bullying of those who simply aren't hardwired for math but who are probably totally awesome at learning and performing other parts of the education.

I'm afraid I must disagree. There's nothing wrong with teaching kids to do math. Being able to do simple math isn't some horrible burden and it's not like we're asking them to do spherical trigonometry without a calculator.

Like other people have been pointing out, being able to add, subtract, and do fractions/percentage in your head is beneficial in so many ways. And to say its burdensome on modern kids is rubbish.

If anything, more numerical literacy needs to be pushed in schools. Especially financial literacy. Too many kids have no idea how interest works or how to budget their finances and it's no surprise that the average household debt in Canada is $25,000+.

[Tricks]

herbie herbie:

Went to Home Depot, the bill was say $19.15 so I handed her a $20. A second later I said wait and gave her 15c too. She's already punched in the 20... couldn't add up 85 +15 in her head. Got out a calculator....
people in line begin rumbling.
She hands me a twoonie and a quarter. Like how in hell\s name did she come up with that. So I got pissed and handed her the quarter and another loonie back and said she gave me too much change.
She starts berating me telling me she can't take a tip. Screws up her till count.
She was so rude I asked her to call her supervisor. Before I could talk, the bitch started her fucked up explanation. I waited and told the supervisor the bill is $19.15, I gave her $20.15 she only owes me a dollar.
The supervisor pulls out a calculator fucks around with it for 5 minutes and hands me the twoonie. Take the damn twoonie, she snarls.
So I did. Both of them were in their fifties.
An now every goddam time I go there I make sure I have lots of coins so I can toss some in and get an even 1,2 or 5 back...

Manager when I worked at a movie theatre couldn't do simple change. 10-15 years older than me and couldn't make change for a 20. People suck at math.

[Tricks]

xerxes xerxes:

Thanos Thanos:

Big deal. I never bought into this crap, which mostly comes from people who don't use math at all in their daily lives anyway, that someone should be able to do 100% correct math in their brains without a calculator for their entire lives. It's BS and it puts too much stress on the kids who are just like every other generation before them in that when they're adults 95% are going to have jobs that have no math at all in them. It's just elitist bullying of those who simply aren't hardwired for math but who are probably totally awesome at learning and performing other parts of the education.

I'm afraid I must disagree. There's nothing wrong with teaching kids to do math. Being able to do simple math isn't some horrible burden and it's not like we're asking them to do spherical trigonometry without a calculator.

Like other people have been pointing out, being able to add, subtract, and do fractions/percentage in your head is beneficial in so many ways. And to say its burdensome on modern kids is rubbish.

If anything, more numerical literacy needs to be pushed in schools. Especially financial literacy. Too many kids have no idea how interest works or how to budget their finances and it's no surprise that the average household debt in Canada is $25,000+.

Agreed. Even doing something as simple as tax on a purchase can be helpful. Never ceased to amaze me having people ask me what tax on a 99.99 purchase was.

[Thanos]

I suspect the debt problem has more to do with the change to a spending culture from a saving one than it has to do with being bad at math. That, and the sad reality that the cost of living increases since the bad inflation days of the 1970's make taking on debt a necessity to cover the basics now, whereas people in the 1950's and '60's didn't have the same problem.

By Grade 6 the differences between those who can do the mental gymnastics with math oppsed to those who can't become more apparent. That's why different classes based on ability should begin in Grade 7 instead of Grade 10. Grade 6 thru 9 are usually the worst years for a kid's self-esteem to take a battering because that's when learning disorders or the effects of a bad life at home become more obvious. Applying the one-size-fits-all assembly line to students who are already on the bubble just makes it worse.

My overall point is to get less kids feeling like they're retards just because they learn at different speeds. Like who really gives a shit if someone has percentages fully figured out in Grade 6 or Grade 8 as long as they eventually are able to do it comfortably. I thought the entire point of teaching this stuff was to create competence at it, not to fulfill the requirements of a "race" to see who learns it the fastest.

[Coach85]

xerxes xerxes:

Thanos Thanos:

Big deal. I never bought into this crap, which mostly comes from people who don't use math at all in their daily lives anyway, that someone should be able to do 100% correct math in their brains without a calculator for their entire lives. It's BS and it puts too much stress on the kids who are just like every other generation before them in that when they're adults 95% are going to have jobs that have no math at all in them. It's just elitist bullying of those who simply aren't hardwired for math but who are probably totally awesome at learning and performing other parts of the education.

I'm afraid I must disagree. There's nothing wrong with teaching kids to do math. Being able to do simple math isn't some horrible burden and it's not like we're asking them to do spherical trigonometry without a calculator.

Like other people have been pointing out, being able to add, subtract, and do fractions/percentage in your head is beneficial in so many ways. And to say its burdensome on modern kids is rubbish.

If anything, more numerical literacy needs to be pushed in schools. Especially financial literacy. Too many kids have no idea how interest works or how to budget their finances and it's no surprise that the average household debt in Canada is $25,000+.

Point being, not everyone is capable of doing math in their heads. Some people are terrible drivers, others can't do math very well.

[housewife]

Personally I think basic math is important even if you have to use paper and a write it all down the long way. Not everyone is mathematically inclined but everyone should have the basics. They should also teach kids how to make change. Some financial math would be good too. Using the rent to own places as an example or the fast cash places that are popping up all over the place. Those two are scary rackets

[Coach85]

housewife housewife:

Personally I think basic math is important even if you have to use paper and a write it all down the long way.

Why is that important?

housewife housewife:

Not everyone is mathematically inclined but everyone should have the basics. They should also teach kids how to make change. Some financial math would be good too. Using the rent to own places as an example or the fast cash places that are popping up all over the place. Those two are scary rackets

We have to challenge the old way of thinking.

We don't need to calculate change as we move towards a cashless society. We have POS systems and cell phones that do this all for us in an instant.

What we need to focus on is financial literacy in terms of investing and budgeting. We have to move away from teaching people to 'save' money (dumb) as that implies we open a savings account and put money there that doesn't serve us at all, and move towards investing using all of the tools available to us.

[DrCaleb]

Coach85 Coach85:

housewife housewife:

Personally I think basic math is important even if you have to use paper and a write it all down the long way.

Why is that important?

housewife housewife:

Not everyone is mathematically inclined but everyone should have the basics. They should also teach kids how to make change. Some financial math would be good too. Using the rent to own places as an example or the fast cash places that are popping up all over the place. Those two are scary rackets

We have to challenge the old way of thinking.

We don't need to calculate change as we move towards a cashless society. We have POS systems and cell phones that do this all for us in an instant.

What we need to focus on is financial literacy in terms of investing and budgeting. We have to move away from teaching people to 'save' money (dumb) as that implies we open a savings account and put money there that doesn't serve us at all, and move towards investing using all of the tools available to us.

Because if you don't understand basic math; things like compound interest, or how to balance a chequebook, then the second part of your post - financial literacy - is impossible.

You put your faith in someone who's only motivation is to sell you things that you probably don't need. "Freedom 55" is a great example of how to spend all your money and have nothing to show for it. And fund managers are never dishonest!

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-c ... -1.4328616

[Thanos]

Savings might be boring but with them you usually avoid the risk of the investment salesman running away with all your cash to the Caymans.

[housewife]

Understanding basic math is a foundation. It will help in understanding basic budgeting and saving. Learning about investment and other financial literacy is good but needs more than a couple classes in high school when no one is paying attention.

We aren't cashless yet. As to savings being just a savings account that's only part of a good savings plan. Having a percentage in a savings account is good liquidity. Having to liquidate assets to pay for what even emergency is a pain. Not to mention the other types of savings like buying enough lost leaders to make it to the next sale. I guess we should teach a basic marketing course too or at least how to shop the lost leaders without impulse buying. It's not hard to shop on a budget but it is time consuming. Knowing what's on sale where and figuring out if it's worth it to go to different stores with time and effort considered too. Budgeting isn't cookie cutter either. Things that I considered important won't necessarily be of any importance to anyone else. I managed to keep five people two cats and a dog feed while also saving for the kids to go to post secondary school. All this on a corporals pay. yeah we had some debts but well below the average. All of which could have been cleaned up if I had wanted to take budgeting to the next level and got rest of my family to play along.

[Coach85]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Because if you don't understand basic math; things like compound interest, or how to balance a chequebook, then the second part of your post - financial literacy - is impossible.

Basic math is part of the curriculum through elementary and high school. I'm not suggesting we scrap that. Expecting the kids do it in their head is no longer necessary.

Compound interest isn't basic math. Not even close. With your foundation of basic math, you can get into the intricacies of compound interest.

housewife housewife:

We aren't cashless yet. As to savings being just a savings account that's only part of a good savings plan. Having a percentage in a savings account is good liquidity. Having to liquidate assets to pay for what even emergency is a pain. Not to mention the other types of savings like buying enough lost leaders to make it to the next sale.

TFSA's have virtually eliminated the need for a traditional savings account. You don't need a savings account to have liquid cash.

housewife housewife:

I guess we should teach a basic marketing course too or at least how to shop the lost leaders without impulse buying. It's not hard to shop on a budget but it is time consuming. Knowing what's on sale where and figuring out if it's worth it to go to different stores with time and effort considered too. Budgeting isn't cookie cutter either. Things that I considered important won't necessarily be of any importance to anyone else. I managed to keep five people two cats and a dog feed while also saving for the kids to go to post secondary school. All this on a corporals pay. yeah we had some debts but well below the average. All of which could have been cleaned up if I had wanted to take budgeting to the next level and got rest of my family to play along.

Taking a marketing course is a good suggestion...as is a course on budgetting.

We have to prepare our kids for the real world. I'd much rather my children know how to invest for the future and keep debt at a minimum than be able to add up their lumber order in their head at Home Depot.

[DrCaleb]

Coach85 Coach85:

Compound interest isn't basic math. Not even close. With your foundation of basic math, you can get into the intricacies of compound interest.

Compound interest is basic math. It's just multiplication. You don't need knowledge of Laplace Transforms to do it. (My definition of basic math is quite a bit different that yours )

Coach85 Coach85:

We have to prepare our kids for the real world. I'd much rather my children know how to invest for the future and keep debt at a minimum than be able to add up their lumber order in their head at Home Depot.

If you want kids prepared for the real world, ten they need basic Calculus and Statistics as well. Like Fife wrote earlier, people need some skills in estimating things, and both of those would serve people in that capacity.

With a basic knowledge of statistics, there are a lot of news stories that stand out as obvious bullshit. Investment fees that are too high also get framed by red neon. With the ability to so simple integration and derivatives, it's easy to spot errors in estimations or values. You hire a contractor to tile a floor, and when his measurements are nwrog, it stands out.

Math is a basic life skill, and life is much more technical that in the past. People will need more than the three R's to get by in the modern world.