[Newsbot]

Title: Norwegians get richer as sovereign wealth fund adds billions
Category: Economics
Posted By: DrCaleb
Date: 2018-02-27 11:31:57

[DrCaleb]

Wow, high quality of living, high citizen morale, and $200k in the bank each. Socialism sure sucks, eh?

[uwish]

That is only a very small short snip-it of the story though. They have a very high cost of living, and a very high tax rate. So you are not comparing apples to apples, the average price for a vehicle in Norway is almost 3 x the cost of a vehicle in Canada.

This site has some basic statistics:

https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/c ... ry2=Norway

Generally everything is far more expensive in Norway than in Canada for example. Just to pick one, if you want to buy an apartment on average it is 90% more expensive.

So you can sit there and claim socialism works, but it really doesn't One of the reasons Norway is starting to vote in more right wing governments, they are tired of paying 2-5X as much for everything.

[Prof_Chomsky]

uwish uwish:

That is only a very small short snip-it of the story though. They have a very high cost of living, and a very high tax rate. So you are not comparing apples to apples, the average price for a vehicle in Norway is almost 3 x the cost of a vehicle in Canada.

This site has some basic statistics:

https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/c ... ry2=Norway

Generally everything is far more expensive in Norway than in Canada for example. Just to pick one, if you want to buy an apartment on average it is 90% more expensive.

So you can sit there and claim socialism works, but it really doesn't One of the reasons Norway is starting to vote in more right wing governments, they are tired of paying 2-5X as much for everything.

That same site shows that the average salary in Norway is 40% higher than in Canada with their average cost of living at 52% more, so a 12% discrepancy... but for that mere 12% you get twice as many doctors, free drugs, daycare, the best education system in the world, and a million other benefits. And the Norwegians do all of this with a population that is less than 1/6th ours.

Clearly socialism works. Why do you think "they" always ensure socialism is intrinsically tied to communism? If people were smart enough to realize socialism is NOT communism we'd all be socialists.

[martin14]

It's not socialism. It's OIL.

[Prof_Chomsky]

Canada has FAR more oil than Norway... so why aren't we doing as well as them? Not to mention pretty well every other conceivable natural resource.
... because they're socialist and kept the people's resources for the people... We on the other hand, let some capitalist asshole take 95% of the wealth from it.

[herbie]

martin14 martin14:

It's not socialism. It's OIL.

Unless it's Venezeula, right?

[uwish]

Prof_Chomsky Prof_Chomsky:

Canada has FAR more oil than Norway... so why aren't we doing as well as them? Not to mention pretty well every other conceivable natural resource.
... because they're socialist and kept the people's resources for the people... We on the other hand, let some capitalist asshole take 95% of the wealth from it.

we do have far more oil but you have a tunnel vision. We have pipeline issues and our prices for heavy crude is WCS not WTI. Norway does not have these issues.

[fifeboy]

I hate like hell so called 'measures' of a nations 'prosperity!' I used to get it all the time visiting the States. "Margarine is so much more expensive in Canada." "Cars cost so much more.". "Your taxes..." None of these things actually measure how well of a person is doing or how happy they are with their lives or the society they live in.
Are Norwegians happy with Norway? Are Canadians happy with Canada? Are Americans happy with the USA?

[BeaverFever]

uwish uwish:

That is only a very small short snip-it of the story though. They have a very high cost of living, and a very high tax rate. So you are not comparing apples to apples, the average price for a vehicle in Norway is almost 3 x the cost of a vehicle in Canada.

This site has some basic statistics:

https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/c ... ry2=Norway

Generally everything is far more expensive in Norway than in Canada for example. Just to pick one, if you want to buy an apartment on average it is 90% more expensive.

So you can sit there and claim socialism works, but it really doesn't One of the reasons Norway is starting to vote in more right wing governments, they are tired of paying 2-5X as much for everything.

Can you explain why you think it would be any different if the money was all going into the pockets of a few oil barrons and corporate investors?

Clearly the country having a population smaller than the GTA and rota elatively remote location have a lot to do with price.

And as has already been said you can’t call a country a failure just because it’s prices are a little higher. As if being able to load up your car with an even bigger pile if cheap crap you didn’t know you needed at the local Walmart is somehow the hallmark of a great civilization or something. Quite the opposite in fact. Third world countries have the lowest prices, after all.

[N_Fiddledog]

Speaking of socialist energy plans here's one I'm curious about but not so curious I want to dig for answers.

I thought I'd just ask the experts here to explain.

Why did our socialist professor prime minister Papa Trudeau fail with his National Energy Plan but Norway succeeded?

And come to think of it herb...yeah, Venezuela. What's Norway got that Venezuela doesn't?

[BeaverFever]

N_Fiddledog N_Fiddledog:

Speaking of socialist energy plans here's one I'm curious about but not so curious I want to dig for answers.

I thought I'd just ask the experts here to explain.

Why did our socialist professor prime minister Papa Trudeau fail with his National Energy Plan but Norway succeeded?

1) Canada is one of the relatively few countries in the world that is a federal state, and in our case, mineral rights are Provincial jurisdiction. Norway like most countries is a unitary state, meaning there is no constitutionally recognozed “sub-sovereign” provincial or state government with any independent authority. Which is why the crying about Ontario having the largest “sub-sovereign” debt in the world is misleading, there are only 6 or 7 western nations that would even have a sub sovereign government that could borrow independently.

2) Unlike Canada and Alberta, Norway was fairly poor by western standards before oil was discovered

3) Norway is further away from the influence of giant US mega corporations and and their overbearing government puppets.

4) Culturally more sympathetic to serving the public interest rather than private interest

$1:

And come to think of it herb...yeah, Venezuela. What's Norway got that Venezuela doesn't?

lack of democracy, history of US intervention and colonial rule.

[herbie]

WTF does PET's old energy plan have to do with Norway? Sweet fuck all they weren't even close to the same thing.
Alberta's Heritage plan was more similar. You know that one, that Conservative gov't after Conservative gov't completely pissed away?

[bootlegga]

herbie herbie:

WTF does PET's old energy plan have to do with Norway? Sweet fuck all they weren't even close to the same thing.
Alberta's Heritage plan was more similar. You know that one, that Conservative gov't after Conservative gov't completely pissed away?

The Heritage Plan wasn't actually pissed away, it's still the largest fund of its kind in Canada. However, governments after 1987 did stop investing in it and let it stagnate, withdrawing the gains to keep taxes low for political gain.

It's one of Alberta's biggest mistakes IMHO, making sure that taxes for Boomers were super low, and almost ensuring that taxes for future generations will have to be much higher even if we just maintain the level of services we currently have, never mind expand or make them better.

[BRAH]

Prof_Chomsky Prof_Chomsky:

Canada has FAR more oil than Norway... so why aren't we doing as well as them? Not to mention pretty well every other conceivable natural resource.
... because they're socialist and kept the people's resources for the people... We on the other hand, let some capitalist asshole take 95% of the wealth from it.

Alberta's Oil Sands are Evil while Opec's OIl is good made from a Rainbow of Skittles.