[Public_Domain]

Gunnair Gunnair:

Dust off the social studies book. You're not doing a thing for your case when you don't appear to understand the role of the head of state within the constitution.

Like politics ends at our national constitution, You're right, nothing changes, ever, and we shall keep doing it because we have always done it. Well not always, just since the last time things changed. It probably won't happen again though, and never say otherwise! Traditions never fade away due to their significant irrelevance.

I understand the Prime Minister swearing by the Queen. Why immigrants? They certainly don't know the Queen. Some skinny old rich white bitch up in a fucking castle somewhere in tea-and-freaking-biscuitsland that literally no one in this country gives a damn about? Even if it was some Canadian, why is an immigrant legally required to swear to them, as if they're making a government contract? Can't follow the law and don't screw over others be enough, must they sign their soul away to some government schmuk? Traditions are silly when they hold people back. At least make it agreeable if we're going to dick people around.

[Public_Domain]

I'd have us swear by humanity, but that's entering a dangerously idealistic stage,

[Vamp018]

Well Canada's Laws and traditions are Canadian. For me it is one reason I stay a Tourist and good neighbor. I will not be a subject, a subject is a slave the same as this old Feudal Pyramid of Monarchy. It also promotes unequal to me. Bottom line I am staying a Yank and only a tourist spending money in Canada and following Canadian Laws/respecting them when visiting. Now I have to go back to clubbing and hunting our Southern Neighborhood pest of lawless.

[martin14]

Strutz Strutz:

Holy shit but this thread has taken an unexpected turn since page 1 (just a few hours ago) when I posted my thoughts on the issue...

WTF?

Just when you think our little kid is starting to grow up, he goes and pulls this shit.


Personally, I am happy the SCOC is refusing to waste it's time with this nonsense.
These loudmouthed individuals from the Commonwealth who want to fundamentally change Canada
should piss off back to potato land and smoke some doobies, because they won't make good citizens anyway.

But it does point out two things:

In our haste to bend over for everyone, we have done a miserable job of teaching some
basic knowledge and respect for how our government works.

Should be mandatory to have a civics class to teach the basics of government, and the role of the Monarchy, and the benefits we derive from that relationship, the stability of not having a Hitler, or a dual citizen working for someone else's agenda, has been a great advantage for us.

It is also noteworthy to see the recent level of Jihadi support in Canada, and some of them
leaving to go fight for ISIS, others staying behind to support, fundraise and recruit,
that the oath in reality these days is pretty much a joke; just words to be mealy mouthed, then back to the mosque.


Inside and out, we as a country fail at importing and raising decent citizens.

[Public_Domain]

We aren't in shambles yet, give it a little longer before putting a tag on it.

[Public_Domain]

the article the article:

In its ruling, the Ontario Court of Appeal noted the Queen remains Canada's head of state, calling the oath a "symbolic commitment to be governed as a democratic constitutional monarchy unless and until democratically changed."

I like the kind of preparatory language here.

[HyperionTheEvil]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

Public_Domain Public_Domain:

I don't need to do shit. The oath is a relic of a past many no longer support. It should justify itself, rather than other people having to justify why they think swearing loyalty to the 19th century is fucking stupid.

It's tradition. Tradition is important. Maybe you're still too young to understand that. Watch Fiddler on the Roof. There's a whole song about it!

Right now ISIS is apparently taking sledgehammers to priceless historical artifacts in Iraq. These objects are made out of stone. They have no intrinsic value. Yet we get upset when someone takes a sledgehammer to them. Same kind of thing.

I wouldn't put it quite the same way Public domain did but seriously wearing an oath to a Queen? or a King, in essence by this oath we dont give it to an ideal, such as the US Constitution but n our case to an actual person, and her babies and for what purpose. The Queen does nothing or me, she doesn't work my job, doesn't pay my taxes, hell she doesn't even cut my lawn, And yet i am supposed to owe my fealty to her and her brood not because she is special, but became she happens to be at the head of a centuries long of intercine |royal" infighting. and Also Frankly im of Irish descent and that also gives me extra reason why to have little or no love for British. They dont stand for democracy or individual rights if your head of state isnt elected , but is rather just a member of the lucky sperm club.

[HyperionTheEvil]

Unsound Unsound:

Gunnair Gunnair:

So clearly symbols have value. You ought to try harder to see that value of symbols doesn't end at your discretion.

Exactly. There is a general consensus that these symbols have significance part of being a member of society is accepting that sometimes you have to bow to the consensus. It's hard to swallow, but there sre some things that you, as an individual, just don't get to decide.

The queen being a symbol of what idleness does to people? A symbol of not having to work for a living. symbol of not having to worry about your mortgage, or college education for your kids, or if there is a war your kids dieing in it? Please the Queen is as useful as fart out of dead chicken.

[HyperionTheEvil]

Gunnair Gunnair:

Public_Domain Public_Domain:

Gunnair Gunnair:

No...you've borrowed it. It is important to you.

So clearly symbols have value. You ought to try harder to see that value of symbols doesn't end at your discretion.

They have value, absolutely. I love symbols. All my art has always been various works of symbols. It is very powerful stuff, flags and symbols.

I don't expect anyone to swear loyalty to any of mine if they call themselves a communist though, because that's dumb, right? If someone doesn't like my symbol, it doesn't automatically mean they don't like communism.

Dust off the social studies book. You're not doing a thing for your case when you don't appear to understand the role of the head of state within the constitution.

Do what the Irish Republic did, kick out the GG and get a retired grocer as a president. Problem solved and we no longer have a indolent unemployed octogenarian as our "head of state"

[Gunnair]

HyperionTheEvil HyperionTheEvil:

Gunnair Gunnair:

Public_Domain Public_Domain:

I don't expect anyone to swear loyalty to any of mine if they call themselves a communist though, because that's dumb, right? If someone doesn't like my symbol, it doesn't automatically mean they don't like communism.

Dust off the social studies book. You're not doing a thing for your case when you don't appear to understand the role of the head of state within the constitution.

Do what the Irish Republic did, kick out the GG and get a retired grocer as a president. Problem solved and we no longer have a indolent unemployed octogenarian as our "head of state"

Sure. A quick little Constitutional amendment right?

[herbie]

andyt andyt:

herbie herbie:

andyt andyt:

So Harper as head of state?

Fraid not. I didn't get to vote for him, his party did.
The GG can be the head of state, even still called a GG. Everyone would get to vote on the GG.

So like PUtin or Obama? With being elected comes political power, so the role would become more than ceremonial.



or I guess we could do a Canadian Idol sort of thing.

Power comes from what we decide when we define it. We don't even have to give any power to the position, that's why I favour GG instead of President. Just moving HEad of State down to a national level like it should be.
I'll use the example of Mulroney going to the Queen to approve those extra Senate seats to pass the GST. Undemocratic, unpatriotic move for Canadians that, because the Queen could not say no, was embarrassing, insulting and demeaning to Her Majesty.

Of course, that's Constitional shit so it will never happen...
Really, what's wrong with some of you guys? Would someone in Australia claim an anti-Monarchist was unpatriotic? I think not.

[PluggyRug]

Gunnair Gunnair:

The allegiance is to the Queen as she is the head of state. it's really that simple.

Yes it is.

[BartSimpson]

Just my $.02 here but I've always understood the Queen to be a necessary check on the potential excesses of civil government in much the same way that the 2nd Amendment is a necessary check on the US government.

FWIW, having a constitutional monarch as a circuit breaker to government is far less dramatic than having to throw a civil war to fix some serious problems.

[herbie]

Not at all. The Queen couldn't "check" Parliament, can't even do that in the UK. It's a misconception in the USA that King George was the evil one, he was just mental. It was Parliament that made the laws that caused the Revolution.
The Monarchy's been reduced to nothing but pomp and circumstance, someone on the coins and the $20 you cheer and wave at and sometimes has to sign a Bill because of the way the Constitution is set up. Is she refused or even commented that 'this is a terrible law' she WOULD be risking Canada, Australia, New Zealand rethinking their positions.
I'm thinking of ways to retain the traditional ties, yet ensure the national and democratic finality of gov't. And with over 200 years of being next to the USA, avoiding some of the problems of a Republic.
It to often seems, even with your built in 'checks and balances' that in response to the fear of a demagogic King, you guys have created a Demagog elected every 4 years. The checks and balances only ensure nothing ever gets done...

[Nuggie77]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Public_Domain Public_Domain:

Glad I was born here, because **** THE OATH!

Then perhaps you need to depart for a country that isn't worried about oaths.

I hear the weather is nice in Somalia this time of year.