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CKA Uber
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PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2015 8:34 am
 


Title: Ont. Liberals to legislate teachers back to work
Category: Provincial Politics
Posted By: OnTheIce
Date: 2015-05-25 08:30:49
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PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2015 8:34 am
 


I love it! Teachers will give up nearly $6000ea in salary and have accomplished nothing. When will these unions learn?


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PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2015 8:36 am
 


Think of the money saved. [cheer]



Can't offend the Dear Leader.

All seeing, all powerful. :lol:


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PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2015 9:00 am
 


Teachers should not be allowed to strike. OTOH, we should treat teaches the way Finland does - one of the highest paid professions in the country, very strict standards, and teachers can be fired if they don't perform.


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PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2015 10:44 am
 


andyt wrote:
Teachers should not be allowed to strike. OTOH, we should treat teaches the way Finland does - one of the highest paid professions in the country, very strict standards, and teachers can be fired if they don't perform.

Finland Nobel Prize Winners - 4, 1 since 1967
Canada - 23

Everyone should be allowed to strike. As long as they understand going into a strike, that no one EVER wins. And measuring teacher performance is a dodgy business. Pretty hard thing to evaluate.


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PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2015 10:50 am
 


Lemmy wrote:
andyt wrote:
Teachers should not be allowed to strike. OTOH, we should treat teaches the way Finland does - one of the highest paid professions in the country, very strict standards, and teachers can be fired if they don't perform.

Finland Nobel Prize Winners - 4, 1 since 1967
Canada - 23

Everyone should be allowed to strike. As long as they understand going into a strike, that no one EVER wins. And measuring teacher performance is a dodgy business. Pretty hard thing to evaluate.


Teachers should be declared an essential service.

If transit operators are, teachers certainly should be.


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PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2015 11:02 am
 


What's all the fuss about. Left wing Gov't have legislated the teacher back to work and worse before.

Quote:
1993: NDP government legislates striking Surrey and Vancouver teachers back to work.

1994: NDP government legislation imposes provincial bargaining on teachers. Government says “whipsawing effect” of local bargaining allows teachers to pick on weak districts and win gains that are leveraged into settlements in other areas. Teachers disagree.

1996: NDP government temporarily freezes public sector strikes before election; the BCTF and BCPSEA achieve a “transitional agreement” to roll over earlier provisions.

1998: BCTF negotiates an agreement directly with the provincial government, including reductions in class size at the K-3 level, staffing ratios for non-enrolling teachers and improvements in teacher on call pay and provisions. Government employer, BCPSEA won’t ratify, so teachers take deal directly to then premier Glen Clark who introduces it as legislation.


Other than the fact that a left wing gov'ts legislating the teachers back work is pretty much a case of "biting the hand that feeds you" it's definitely not uncommon nor all that newsworthy.


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PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2015 11:03 am
 


Any essential service should be sent immediately to binding arbitration if contract negotiations break down. That way strikes are preempted but the employer can't wiggle off the hook either. Forced arbitration might have also knocked some of these public sector raises down a bit too that the governments were being too generous with when times were better.


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PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2015 11:13 am
 


We got 7.5 over 4 years because the union was too busy infighting while oil was high.


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PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2015 11:44 am
 


OnTheIce wrote:
Teachers should be declared an essential service.

If transit operators are, teachers certainly should be.

Essential in what sense? They are essential, yes, but not IMMEDIATELY essential. It doesn't matter if your kid learns quadratic formula today. It does matter if the guy having a heart attack gets the ambulance ride today. The essential service you're thinking of is daycare.


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PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2015 11:59 am
 


Lemmy wrote:
Essential in what sense? They are essential, yes, but not IMMEDIATELY essential. It doesn't matter if your kid learns quadratic formula today. It does matter if the guy having a heart attack gets the ambulance ride today. The essential service you're thinking of is daycare.


Education itself is essential. It's also a fundamental human right.

These types of strikes do nothing to improve the quality of education. All they do is cause the teachers to lose money and the kids to lose out on valuable classroom time.


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PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2015 12:03 pm
 


OnTheIce wrote:
Education itself is essential. It's also a fundamental human right.

I agree

OTI wrote:
These types of strikes do nothing to improve the quality of education. All they do is cause the teachers to lose money and the kids to lose out on valuable classroom time.

Too early to say yet. The last highschool "strike" in Ontario was in September of 1997 and that absolutely did do lots to improve the quality of education. This one? Not sure yet. If Wynne and Sandals are going to remove class size limits and this strike averts that, it WILL preserve quality of education. We'll see how it shakes down.


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PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2015 12:24 pm
 


Lemmy wrote:
Too early to say yet. The last highschool "strike" in Ontario was in September of 1997 and that absolutely did do lots to improve the quality of education.


That strike was completely ineffective and illegal. So much so, the teachers bowed down and went back to work after a couple weeks, taking the concessions.Some pouted for years, refusing to do any activities with the kids.


Lemmy wrote:
This one? Not sure yet. If Wynne and Sandals are going to remove class size limits and this strike averts that, it WILL preserve quality of education. We'll see how it shakes down.


The quality of education at 25 or 30-35 students is negligible. The teachers who are teaching today and the politicians at Queens Park grew up in an era with class sizes in the mid to low 30's.


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PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2015 12:52 pm
 


ShepherdsDog wrote:
We got 7.5 over 4 years because the union was too busy infighting while oil was high.

I get that automatically every year without a union, it's called "cost of living", or if you prefer, "inflation". :?


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PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2015 12:58 pm
 


Quote:
Finland Nobel Prize Winners - 4, 1 since 1967
Canada - 23

Apples and oranges. Consider population size - There are more people in the GTA than in all of Finland - and Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that most if not all of those "Canadian" Nobel laureates won their prize for work they did in the US or overseas....in other words they just happened to have been born here but achieved their greatness elsewhere.


Quote:
Teachers should be declared an essential service.

If transit operators are, teachers certainly should be.


No, there's a big difference. When transit workers strike, factories go idle for lack of employees and people cant get groceries or go to doctor's appointments. When teachers strike, there's the inconvenience of finding care for your kids while you're at work, but people deal with that all summer anyway.


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