[bootlegga]

Scape Scape:

bootlegga bootlegga:

My point is that Apple's planned obsolescence and inability to upgrade hardware carried over from their Macs, so it is relevant.

Planned obsolesce is not the same as diminishing returns. You can not expect an OS that is adding new and more power demanding features to still work on a battery in a cell phone that is expected to be active every day for years at a time. The battery is going to get weaker and the chip that runs it is only as good as the time it was issued but the software will always be geared to the latest spec. Inevitably the software is going to outpace the hardware and since cellphones are not phones but mini-computers they are going to need to keep up with the tech not the utility of making a phone call.

It's not pretty but if you want a stable and reliable os your going to need to sacrifice some utility. The spirit is willing but the flesh is weak, same with tech. The software is promising the moon but Scotty is screaming the engines are gonna blow.

This has a LOT to do with the fact that tech has moved so fast in such little time. There is soon to be a stabilizing in that we can only make chips so small and batteries so powerful. The leaps we made years past will be inches in future so we really will end up with phone that last much longer going forward but planned obsolesce to force consumers to upgrade was not the focus, it was an afterthought.

Everything you say is applicable to Apple more than Android.

Apple is based on fixed hardware and planned obsolescence, so you can't upgrade your tech and new OS updates and apps pushes your phone to the junkyard. That's why they got fined for it last year in France:

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-51413724

With Android, I simply upgraded my SD card, going from 16 GB to 64 GB (two of which I got from Costco for maybe $50 in 2018). Then I pushed everything over (including apps) to the SD card and left the onboard RAM for running the OS. I also put a new battery in the S4 around the same time that I got for $40 from a local vendor, and my battery still lasts all day long.

Voila, I've got a phone that works just good - for what I need it for - as it did when I bought it.

[Scape]

Well, it's true.

Take a look at the supported bands of the 2nd gen SE:

https://www.apple.com/ca/iphone-se/specs/

Cellular and Wireless
Model A2275*

FDD‑LTE (Bands 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, 8, 12, 13, 14, 17, 18, 19, 20, 25, 26, 29, 30, 66, 71)
TD‑LTE (Bands 34, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 46, 48)
UMTS/HSPA+/DC‑HSDPA (850, 900, 1700/2100, 1900, 2100 MHz)
GSM/EDGE (850, 900, 1800, 1900 MHz)
All models

Gigabit-class LTE with 2x2 MIMO and LAA4
802.11ax Wi‑Fi 6 with 2x2 MIMO
Bluetooth 5.0 wireless technology
NFC with reader mode
Express Cards with power reserve


Keep in mind that the processor has to run ALL of these bands in tandem while you make a call. IE if you inside lower frequencies are used as they penetrate wall better. All of this is done seamlessly while you are on the call but the network has to have towers that can use that frequency and that is a different tower for each band and these towers can only handle so many calls and for far from the tower. Higher population mass compounds this. The high frequencies also require more power from the handset the further you are from the tower.

[Thanos]

This is why Commander William Adama was entirely 100% correct to have all this sort of networked crap prohibited from being installed on the battlestar called Galactica. Aargh! Frustrating!

[Scape]

bootlegga bootlegga:

Everything you say is applicable to Apple more than Android.

Apple is based on fixed hardware and planned obsolescence, so you can't upgrade your tech and new OS updates and apps pushes your phone to the junkyard. That's why they got fined for it last year in France:

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-51413724

With Android, I simply upgraded my SD card, going from 16 GB to 64 GB (two of which I got from Costco for maybe $50 in 2018). Then I pushed everything over (including apps) to the SD card and left the onboard RAM for running the OS. I also put a new battery in the S4 around the same time that I got for $40 from a local vendor, and my battery still lasts all day long.

Voila, I've got a phone that works just good - for what I need it for - as it did when I bought it.

Apple was smart under Jobs as he bought the manufacturing lines from conception to completion and secured it long term. Competitors of the time such as Nokia or Blackberry were unable to compete as a result. He cornered the market and Google tried to do a decentralized approach to compete but this lead to an os and manufacturing line that was not synchronized or harmonized effectively.

Think about it, you have ONE manufacture and ONE operating system from a developers POV it is much more efficient to develop software of course you are going to put your efforts towards that market as it is going to be unfragmented and bigger. Also, when Apple rolls out software updates adoption by end users is nearly instantaneous that week with over 97% of the user base adopting it whereas on Google end you can be 6 months after an update and they still don't have widespread adoption and that's just the software, never mind the carriers allowing you to upgrade or the hardware being even capable of doing it.

[Scape]

bootlegga bootlegga:

Everything you say is applicable to Apple more than Android.

Apple is based on fixed hardware and planned obsolescence, so you can't upgrade your tech and new OS updates and apps pushes your phone to the junkyard. That's why they got fined for it last year in France:

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-51413724

With Android, I simply upgraded my SD card, going from 16 GB to 64 GB (two of which I got from Costco for maybe $50 in 2018). Then I pushed everything over (including apps) to the SD card and left the onboard RAM for running the OS. I also put a new battery in the S4 around the same time that I got for $40 from a local vendor, and my battery still lasts all day long.

Voila, I've got a phone that works just good - for what I need it for - as it did when I bought it.

Apple was smart under Jobs as he bought the manufacturing lines from conception to completion and secured it long term. Competitors of the time such as Nokia or Blackberry were unable to compete as a result. He cornered the market and Google tried to do a decentralized approach to compete but this lead to an os and manufacturing line that was not synchronized or harmonized effectively.

Think about it, you have ONE manufacture and ONE operating system from a developers POV it is much more efficient to develop software of course you are going to put your efforts towards that market as it is going to be unfragmented and bigger. Also, when Apple rolls out software updates adoption by end users is nearly instantaneous that week with over 97% of the user base adopting it whereas on Google end you can be 6 months after an update and they still don't have widespread adoption and that's just the software, never mind the carriers allowing you to upgrade or the hardware being even capable of doing it.

[DrCaleb]

Scape Scape:

How many dropped calls did you have on those networks that only supported one band if you could connect where you were at?

Hardware isn't just in your hand it's the network it interfaces with. That network isn't created out of thin air nor is it maintained that way. What data you send to that network in the 90's unencrypted and via set providers via establish protocols is NOT static. CDMA, GSM, LTE are all established now but they are not staying that way as there is a push to 5G how we get there is still up in the air. Do you think your phone from the 90's will work on those networks?

My newest phone (2018) only gets LTE in this rural location, almost never 4G unless I'm outside.

It'll never get 5G, because 5G is even more susceptible to interference and they just don't care about rural residents.

[Scape]

Coverage map

Further out the weaker the connection as redundancy is removed. Unless your in an urban area or on a major transportation hub your going to have spotty cover even today. It's a big country. That said the people who are on network are dropped less as long as there is a net to catch you and a handset that can use that net. That said Canada's 4g rollout is actually as good as if not better than 5g in urban areas making 5g redundant to an extent if you are in an area that has a decent footprint. Frankly 4g with wi-fi for data is usually a better option and you don't need a new phone for it.

[herbie]

Oh FFS some of you guys sound like my old fart buddy defending his flip phone.
Ya know, it still makes calls and that's all he need it for (tanslation: I haven't figured out how to text after 15 years)
Ya get a new one cuz even the web&app designers are in on it, 6pt text in #080808 grey on a light #060606 grey background you can't even read on a 13" laptop FFS.
And there's still a boatload of people dumb enough to think cell phones are "free" or only worth $99 cuz if they can even read the fine print on the contract they will go out of their way not to understand it.
Plus there's fucknut hypocrites like our Mayor, Council & Chamber that will dance about proclaiming all the good they do to support the town while whining loudly that the gov't doesn't MAKE Telus provide the service and suck more money away without providing any jobs - all the while ignoring the local ISP across the street their kid works at that has for years.

5G? Repeaters every other block?
Starlink, with so fucking many low Earth satellites they're gonna need orbiting traffic lights to get to the space station safely?
Which will you invest in?

[DrCaleb]

Scape Scape:

Further out the weaker the connection as redundancy is removed.

No, that's physics. The faster a signal is, the more power it takes to generate and the less distance it travels. In order to get faster data rates and more with every generation of wireless protocol, the closer together towers have to be. The push is also to have more customers per tower in order to reduce overall costs.

Something that you just can't get in rural Canada, because the cost doesn't justify having that many towers in such a low population density.

So my having the latest and greatest phone gives me absolutely no benefit for what I use it for.

herbie herbie:

Oh FFS some of you guys sound like my old fart buddy defending his flip phone.

No. We are arguing to use the best tool for the job. If all you can do is make phone calls, then a flip phone is perfectly fine for the job.

Why do I need a phone that gets 5G, when I will never be able to use 5G?

[bootlegga]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

herbie herbie:

Oh FFS some of you guys sound like my old fart buddy defending his flip phone.

No. We are arguing to use the best tool for the job. If all you can do is make phone calls, then a flip phone is perfectly fine for the job.

Why do I need a phone that gets 5G, when I will never be able to use 5G?

^ This exactly - you don't use a sledgehammer to hang a picture, you use a normal hammer.

Same goes for phones - I don't need an iPhone 12 or Galaxy S21, but I'm sure there are people who do.

When this phone is no longer useful, I'll get a new one.

Heck, I'll probably get a new one this fall when the S20 goes on clearance because of the new S21. I'm not against upgrading, I'd just prefer to spend my money on other things that I deem more important.

[raydan]

[Tricks]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Actually, I feel almost the same way about Android too. Way too expensive hardware, software barely masked as spyware. Manufacturers that abandon software upgrades too easily.

No one really treats cell phones as essential communication any more. It's all data points for profit.

I don't mean just phones.

But I'll take android any day over apple. At least I can strip everything away and install custom software if I want.

[Tricks]

Scape Scape:

bootlegga bootlegga:

My 7 seven year old Galaxy S4 (2014) still runs fine and I've swapped out the memory card on it twice so it can handle apps and have memory for photos and music. Can you say the same about any iPhone?

Focus boots we are talking cellphones not mac/pc.

Why would you use a 7 year old cell phone? Most are designed for 2 years of use and are not intended to be used on a daily bases beyond that point.

I wasn't saying cellphones. I said apple.

[Tricks]

I can't fathom using an old phone. Once it hits about two years I start looking at upgrading, I use my phone for too much to let it slow down that much

[herbie]

Haha, actually grasping at straws to defend using flip phones in 2021 are we?
Yeah I have heard the "all we really need" excuse for decades in my line of work.
"Gee my Celeron PC with Vista seems really slow, can you fix it?" "I just bought it off you (in 2006)"

I used Facetime. Once. Neighbour bought an iPad v1 like me, we Facetimed between porches just to see how it worked. 95% of everyone else bought cheap Android shit. So fucking lame Telus 'gave them away', like they wanted $20 for 1 Gig extra and offered a Samsung PLUS 1 extra Gig for $10 a month so I went for it. The wife used it a week and tossed it in the corner, too slow and useless. Might look into if I can reflash it to run Raspian instead of Android.

Someone gave me a Macbook, identical to my old one. Late 2008. Upped it from 2 to 6GB, added a $50 256SSD and patched it to Catalina & listed it for $250. Not shitting you, it boots and starts faster than any sub $700 PC laptop I've ever seen.
Now don't think I'm a fanboy, I had to get these things so I know how they work and how to fix them. It's been my job. But when the iPhone rings or gets a text and I'm in another room on the Mac or iPad - I can answer it. I can move pics from the iPhone without mickey-mouse software and Mac/MS rivalry BS.
And I can use Zoom to talk to a clunky old desktop, Teamviewer to fix PCs during lockdowns, etc.
Facetime?
Sort of the opinions I leave for online restaurant reviews. "I ate there. Once."