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PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 9:33 am
 


The article is not clear. If a french educated family wants their child in an english daycare, the government knows better than the parents?


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 7:15 pm
 


Smacle Smacle:
MacDonaill MacDonaill:
Nobody expects the Swedish government to finance English-language schools for those citizens who want their children educated in English, even if English is just as useful to them as it is to French-Canadians (even more so, since only the Swedes speak Swedish). If a parent wants his child to go to a school in a language other than the one of instruction in his society, then he has to pay for it.

I live in Ontario now. If I want my kid to go to a public French school in Ontario, I can't (without having the child's right to do so judged by a panel). Why? Because the Ministry of Education says those schools are there for the children of parents whose first language is French. So if I want my kid to go to French school in Ontario, I have to pay for it. I'm fine with that. A good education is worth paying for.


I'm an anglophone raised in B.C. and I went to a french emerssion school until grade 9. No extra cost, now that's a fair and undiscriminatory government. Some Quebecers need to grow the fuck up. Maybe we should need to apply for citizenship to live in Quebec? Pass some skill testing french questions? You don't need to speak english in the rest of the country. How many Asians are on the west coast hanging signs on their buisnesses with no english or french at all?

Canada is not first and foremost francophone. Does the name John A MacDonald mean anything to you? Perhaps you are the one re-writing history? What ever your colony was called before that is none of my concern. Your Colony however agreed to be a part of this country and you better start to play fair because the anglophones are getting sick of you.


Wow, that immersion sure did a bang up job. Your English is as bad as your French probably is. I've met scores of immersion kids, none of them had very impressive French for someone who supposedly had done his or her entire education in it. I would never send my kid to French immersion. Most of the teachers don't even speak French correctly.

Don't need to speak English in the rest of the country? Yeah right. From where I'm sitting, in Waterloo Region, Ontario, I'm guessing I'd be pretty fucked if I didn't speak any English. The same goes for almost everywhere else in the country, excluding the ethnic ghettos you've alluding to.

Francophones in this country were calling themselves Canadiens long before John A. MacDonald stumbled his drunk ass over here from Scotland, genius. So why don't you do a little review.

And where does English Canada come off lecturing Quebec about 'playing fair'? Look, I agree that separatists in Quebec are more often than not a bunch of whiny pussies. That aside, Quebec is not dishonest in the way it deals in intergovernmental affairs. In fact, I'd say it does things more honestly than the others. I agree that they should play along a little more often, but they aren't obliged to by the Constitution: the document under which they came into the Confederation.

The fact is, Quebec is the most intrepid province in the country; the one with the most backbone, not afraid to assert themselves and their identity. The rest of Canada could take a lesson or two from them.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 7:29 pm
 


uwish uwish:
French has faded because your 3 million francophones surrounded by 300 million anglo's!


According to Statscan (2006), there are 6.8 million francophones in Canada, 5.8 million of which are in Quebec. This leaves about a million others dispersed around the country (mostly in Ontario and New Brunswick).

So in a fairly important chunk of the country, from western N.B. to Eastern and Northern Ontario, French is either the most important language or a very important language.

You factor in the American anglophones to deem that French is doomed. But we don't live in the US. This is Canada, and as long as French is an official language, and as long as the French-Canadian community stays committed to keeping French as its language, then it's not likely to disappear.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 7:39 pm
 


MacDonaill MacDonaill:
Wow, that immersion sure did a bang up job. Your English is as bad as your French probably is. I've met scores of immersion kids, none of them had very impressive French for someone who supposedly had done his or her entire education in it. I would never send my kid to French immersion. Most of the teachers don't even speak French correctly.


That's a blanket statement fail. All my experience with immersion programs (both French and English) is very positive, both in terms of the results and the calibre of teaching.

MacDonaill MacDonaill:
Don't need to speak English in the rest of the country? Yeah right. From where I'm sitting, in Waterloo Region, Ontario, I'm guessing I'd be pretty fucked if I didn't speak any English. The same goes for almost everywhere else in the country, excluding the ethnic ghettos you've alluding to.

Francophones in this country were calling themselves Canadiens long before John A. MacDonald stumbled his drunk ass over here from Scotland, genius. So why don't you do a little review.


In fairness to John A. Macdonald (the 'd' isn't capitalized, btw), he came to Canada at age 5, so it's doubtful that he was on the sauce yet.

MacDonaill MacDonaill:
And where does English Canada come off lecturing Quebec about 'playing fair'? Look, I agree that separatists in Quebec are more often than not a bunch of whiny pussies. That aside, Quebec is not dishonest in the way it deals in intergovernmental affairs. In fact, I'd say it does things more honestly than the others. I agree that they should play along a little more often, but they aren't obliged to by the Constitution: the document under which they came into the Confederation.

The fact is, Quebec is the most intrepid province in the country; the one with the most backbone, not afraid to assert themselves and their identity. The rest of Canada could take a lesson or two from them.


On those points, I generally concur.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 7:51 pm
 


$1:
Most of the teachers don't even speak French correctly.

THAT I agree with.
I was taught French in school (European French, France's French) and my 11 year old gets French taught now. Holy moly, what a difference in pronounciation. I don't understand anything she says. The teacher has a HUGE English accent, so the kids learn that too. I hate it.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 8:00 pm
 


well, in general they are really two separate languages. Francophone or quebecois French is very 'nasally'

It is like trying to understand a true Scottsman or someone from the ROCK with a heavy accent. Sure you may understand generalities, but to call them both French is stretching it a bit.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 8:22 pm
 


Then stop claiming to speak French. Claim to speak Quebecois.

My point tho, was that she is taught neither. My niece's sister in law is Quebecoise. That's easier to follow than the French spoken by an English teacher who is NOT French, and I assume the level of French education was not that high...

It's the same as you teaching Dutch, while you have been taught Dutch by an english speaking person, and not by a native Dutch.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 8:28 pm
 


uwish uwish:
well, in general they are really two separate languages. Francophone or quebecois French is very 'nasally'

It is like trying to understand a true Scottsman or someone from the ROCK with a heavy accent. Sure you may understand generalities, but to call them both French is stretching it a bit.


Quebec French is nasally, but it is still French. The normal language used in Quebec is not a creole or a patois; it's simply French with a different accent and some different words than European French. 80% of the language comes from the tronc commun (the common trunk) of vocabulary used by all Francophones the world over.

That said, if someone really wants to jouale it up, then you could start using the 'p' word (patois), but the same is true for any regional variety of French, even in Europe. Someone from Paris would have just as hard a time understanding someone speaking a very heavy Valaisan dialect (from Switzerland) as he would understanding an uneducated speaker from the Beauce (in Quebec).


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 8:39 pm
 


Oh, true. I just think, that when you teach FRENCH, you should teach French, and not something with a huge English accent.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 10:03 pm
 


Brenda Brenda:
Oh, true. I just think, that when you teach FRENCH, you should teach French, and not something with a huge English accent.


Oh, I'm 100% in agreement. It's ridiculous, some of the stuff that goes on in those immersion schools. And to be honest, from what I hear from first hand accounts of people working in even the actual francophone schools in this region of Ontario, the French has been so denatured by English influence that it's absolutely appalling.

However, French spoken in Quebec by actual francophones in no way corresponds to this. You can say a lot about that accent, good and bad, but you can never say it's an English one. That's for damn sure.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 10:07 pm
 


MacDonaill MacDonaill:
Francophones in this country were calling themselves Canadiens long before John A. MacDonald stumbled his drunk ass over here from Scotland, genius. So why don't you do a little review.


Those "Canadians" you speak of refered to themselves as French. Part of New France infact. The Country of Canada was not founded first or foremost french. The name came from a region of New France.

A few of my french immersion teachers came from either Quebec or France. Maybe if you really cared about "saving" your culture then you would worry more about educating people instead of ignorantly alienating yourselves. Anglos move to Montreal because they like the culture and art there. You criticize the immersion program but its shortcomings are Quebecs failure to educate us. Atleast we are trying to be culturaly sensitive and open, it sure has weakened my english vocabulary which is why I switched the the regular program in grade 9. My english spelling was suffering.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 11:13 pm
 


Frankly I am tired of them crying foul but I can understand that they are afraid of being swallowed up by the English culture around them.

The point remains though that you can't legislate a language onto people. If the French culture is dying out then maybe a celebration of French culture and a greater educational opportunity to learn the language are more worthy goals then trying to be French police?

I'm tired of the French trying to force laws down our throats. If you don't work with us of course the problem is going to get worse. Geez.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 2:06 am
 


$1:
No. Not 'no matter the cost'. And being a PQ member would mean being a separatist, which I am not and never will be because I know that Canada is first and foremost a Francophone country, and I'm not about to give that up. I'd rather re-conquer the country from within than leave it behind. I'm a Canadian. I'll never support separatism.

Honestly, the expectations of some on this board are simply nonsensical. Quebec is a francophone society and state. Why should it finance its own assimilation into a culture it doesn't want to be a part of?

I agree 100%. I live in Montreal, and am of Russian descent. I adore Montreal, and I love the French culture. I never particularly liked Bill 101, but I can understand. While many of my friends moved away to Toronto (New York Lite), I chose to stay because Montreal is so very special to me. It was my choice, and I have to adapt. However, I am first and foremost a CANADIAN, and so are most of the people I know, be they Francophone, Anglophone or Allophone.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 10:48 am
 


Saffron Saffron:
$1:
No. Not 'no matter the cost'. And being a PQ member would mean being a separatist, which I am not and never will be because I know that Canada is first and foremost a Francophone country, and I'm not about to give that up. I'd rather re-conquer the country from within than leave it behind. I'm a Canadian. I'll never support separatism.

Honestly, the expectations of some on this board are simply nonsensical. Quebec is a francophone society and state. Why should it finance its own assimilation into a culture it doesn't want to be a part of?

I agree 100%. I live in Montreal, and am of Russian descent. I adore Montreal, and I love the French culture. I never particularly liked Bill 101, but I can understand. While many of my friends moved away to Toronto (New York Lite), I chose to stay because Montreal is so very special to me. It was my choice, and I have to adapt. However, I am first and foremost a CANADIAN, and so are most of the people I know, be they Francophone, Anglophone or Allophone.


Hear, hear!


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 1:00 pm
 


I think there are many quebecers of french origin that have served in the military and come from families that are strong Canadian families. It's too bad that the extremist are able to taint their politics with policies that have 'inferiority complex' written all over it.

Why are Quebecers so paranoid of losing their culture? Heck, there are places in the US where the french culture is there and it is there to stay. Anyone that thinks you can take the french away from Quebec, or the ukranian away from Edmonton, or the dutch away from Lethbridge, or the Chinese away from Vancouver are seriously fooling themselves. Cultures just don't melt as easily as the PQ would have you beleive.

Relax a little, and stop allowing your inferiority complex to stir up bad feelings about other parts of Canada. We are all in the same country. Its time for Quebec to start acting like they are part of Canada.


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