[OnTheIce]

Brenda wrote:

Gunnair wrote:

andyt wrote:

Why those ungrateful bastards. Now they want gadgets too.

Oh stop. I don't know about you but when I had limited means, I stuck with the inexpensive tv, the pre-fab furniture, and minimal expensive gadgets because I didn't want to go into debt for them.

No one deserves gadgets, Andy, they are not a right as you seem to be suggesting. They are a privilege that you work for.

Absolutely. And that is the way I am about it too. If I have to choose between an iPad that I do not need, because I HAVE a computer, or food or rent, guess what wins? Not the iPad on the credit card...

That said, I am sure Andy was sarcastic. Of course people WANT it. The difference is tho that not every one can afford everything. Doesn't mean they can't WANT them...

I'm fairly certain andy believes that poor people DESERVE these things...they're entitled to the same thing everyone else is, how dare we rob them of that joy.

[Brenda]

andyt wrote:

Brenda wrote:

That said, I am sure Andy was sarcastic. Of course people WANT it. The difference is tho that not every one can afford everything. Doesn't mean they can't WANT them...

You get me, you really get me.

I know

Quote:

But it's also to point out the attitude that fuck the people on the bottom. Let em get a better education.

I agree. Bad thing is tho, that they just cannot afford it...

Quote:

You talked about $20 an hour. A couple each earning that are doing OK. A single parent is still not too badly off. But 20% of BC's workforce earns less than $12 an hour. Big difference.

I was talking FAMILY income. For a family (single parent or not) with children. Not EACH parent making $20/hr...

[Brenda]

OnTheIce wrote:

I'm fairly certain andy believes that poor people DESERVE these things...they're entitled to the same thing everyone else is, how dare we rob them of that joy.

I am fairly certain that Andy believes that poor people too should have the ability to educate themselves, to get the help to get them out of the mess they are in, regardless.
I think Andy believes that every body deserves a roof over their heads and the healthcare they need, to be able to afford enough food to not get hungry and enough clothing to not be cold.

When rents are raised so people on minimum wage cannot afford a place to live anymore, we have a problem. They too work an honest day of work. Why are they not deserving of a roof over their heads? They are working just as hard as you (not personal) do, maybe even harder! Just because they do not have the brains (or money) to go to University makes them not deserving of food and shelter???


*edited for spleling


Also, mind that I said "I THINK" I know what Andy believes. Does not mean I am speaking for him, because I could be totally off.

[andyt]

Well as of May 1, two people working full time will earn the munificent sum of at least 20.50 a hour. So they've got nothing to complain about.

Of course people buy too much crap. But that's what we've been taught will make us happy, and we see everybody else have so we want it too. I don't go that way, because I realized what bullshit it is - look how long it took me to buy a DVD. But in our materialistic society, that's what creates contentment for most people, a sense they're not being left behind. Content people create a peaceful, ordered, productive society. People who feel they're being screwed eventually push back. And that's no fun for anybody. Which is why the rich guys who actually have a brain in their head and can take the long view are arguing the same thing I am. We built our stable western societies post wwii on a burgeoning middle class with lots of opportunities to materially improve your life. Going against that will be very dangerous.

[OnTheIce]

Brenda wrote:

OnTheIce wrote:

I'm fairly certain andy believes that poor people DESERVE these things...they're entitled to the same thing everyone else is, how dare we rob them of that joy.

I am fairly certain that Andy believes that poor people too should have the ability to educate themselves, to get the help to get them out of the mess they are in, regardless.
I think Andy believes that every body deserves a roof over their heads and the healthcare they need, to be able to afford enough food to not get hungry and enough clothing to not be cold.

When rents are raised so people on minimum wage cannot afford a place to live anymore, we have a problem. They too work an honest day of work. Why are they not deserving of a roof over their heads? They are working just as hare as you (not personal) do, maybe even harder! Just because they do not have the brains (or money) to go to University makes them not deserving of food and shelter???

Then where is the motivation?

Why strive to get through college or university, working to make ends meet when you could drop out and have your education and housing paid for?

"Work" isn't all the same.

[Brenda]

Do you know what a paralegal makes per hour? Or a legal assistant? Do you know what a bookkeeper makes per hour? These are not uneducated people.
Not every skilled job pays that well.

[BartSimpson]

Funny statistic from last year in the USA:

Quote:

More than half of the millionaires in the USA do not have college degrees.

More than half of the unemployed in the USA do.

Just saying.

[OnTheIce]

Brenda wrote:

Do you know what a paralegal makes per hour? Or a legal assistant? Do you know what a bookkeeper makes per hour? These are not uneducated people.
Not every skilled job pays that well.

First off, you don't jump into a career as a para-legal, take years of education for it then look at what the salary is....then bitch about it.

According to Monster.ca, the median income for a paralegal is 51k here in Toronto.

Bookkeeper: $49k

Can't find any info on a legal asst.

[Brenda]

OnTheIce wrote:

Brenda wrote:

Do you know what a paralegal makes per hour? Or a legal assistant? Do you know what a bookkeeper makes per hour? These are not uneducated people.
Not every skilled job pays that well.

First off, you don't jump into a career as a para-legal, take years of education for it then look at what the salary is....then bitch about it.

According to Monster.ca, the median income for a paralegal is 51k here in Toronto.

Bookkeeper: $49k

Can't find any info on a legal asst.

Yeah, that is what Monster says.
This is what http://skilledimmigrants.vpl.ca/index.p ... ookkeepers in BC says:

Quote:

Wages and Salaries in the Industry
Salaries vary depending on experience, education, location, and the employer. Generally, starting salaries range from about $18,000 to $25,000 a year. Bookkeepers with many years of experience and training can make $60,000 a year or more. The average salary, however, is around $29,000 a year. With more education, bookkeepers can become accountants and increase their salary significantly.

Full-time bookkeepers usually receive benefits in addition to a salary. These may include paid sick days, vacation time, and dental coverage.

Source: Career Cruising database (Profile for Bookkeeper). Available from the VPL Online, Articles, Encyclopedias & More page at http://www.vpl.ca/electronic_databases/alpha/c

Para-legal:
http://www.livingin-canada.com/salaries ... tions.html

I am just saying.

[OnTheIce]

Brenda wrote:

I am just saying.

Maybe they should check their own numbers. Totally off!

From your article, the average salary for a bookkeeper in 4 BC regions is $16.89/hour or $35,131/year. Much higher than the 29k they claim. It's about the same for a paralegal.

You can't expect to walk out of community college with zero experience and make 50k per year, so of course starting wages are much lower.

Frankly, with today's software, it's a data-entry position with some educational background required hence the reason that 50% of the roles are part-time. We just fired our accountant/controller and split the duties among a lease portfolio manager and a accounts receivable person.

Again, I repeat, you don't decide to pursue a career with your blinders on. You don't invest years of your life without doing the proper research and asking yourself "What can I do with this education and how much will I make?"

[Brenda]

OnTheIce wrote:

Brenda wrote:

I am just saying.

Maybe they should check their own numbers. Totally off!

From your article, the average salary for a bookkeeper in 4 BC regions is $16.89/hour or $35,131/year. Much higher than the 29k they claim. It's about the same for a paralegal.

You can't expect to walk out of community college with zero experience and make 50k per year, so of course starting wages are much lower.

Frankly, with today's software, it's a data-entry position with some educational background required hence the reason that 50% of the roles are part-time. We just fired our accountant/controller and split the duties among a lease portfolio manager and a accounts receivable person.

Again, I repeat, you don't decide to pursue a career with your blinders on. You don't invest years of your life without doing the proper research and asking yourself "What can I do with this education and how much will I make?"

So, due to all the computers everywhere, no one is more than a robot punching on buttons to make the robots do what they do. Right?

No one needs skills anymore, because the computer can do it. So we can all go back to $12/hr.

[OnTheIce]

Brenda wrote:

So, due to all the computers everywhere, no one is more than a robot punching on buttons to make the robots do what they do. Right?

No one needs skills anymore, because the computer can do it. So we can all go back to $12/hr.

In some cases, yes. That's absolutely the case. Reality sucks.