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PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2020 7:39 am
 


Title: Prison watchdog annual report raises concerns of �culture of impunity� in Edmonton jail
Category: Law & Order
Posted By: DrCaleb
Date: 2020-02-19 06:23:15
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2020 7:39 am
 


What reforms?
What change?
What is the long-term goal??

Quote:
Canada�s prison watchdog is raising concerns about the safety, rights and human dignity of prisoners in Canada�s federal corrections system, issues he says stem from a workplace culture in the Correctional Service of Canada that has become �highly insular, inflexible and resistant to change�

Correctional investigator Ivan Zinger tabled his annual report in Parliament Tuesday, detailing what he calls entrenched and ingrained habits that have become barriers to reform.
It looks to me like more money needs to be spent on more staff, better food and more physical space. Why make things more complicated??


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2020 8:40 am
 


Quote:
It looks to me like more money needs to be spent on more staff, better food and more physical space. Why make things more complicated??


Though I don't disagree I'm not sure you know what some of that intails and the backlash both political and public that happens.

Hire more staff and you get meet by the We Don't Want A Police State groups. Better food you get hit by the quit treating them like the are staying at a upper class hotel. More Space means new buildings and some times new location. That's meet by the above and the see you are arresting people for petty crimes so let them go. Then the yes we need more jails but NOT near me.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2020 8:47 am
 


stratos wrote:
Hire more staff and you get meet by the We Don't Want A Police State groups. Better food you get hit by the quit treating them like the are staying at a upper class hotel. More Space means new buildings and some times new location. That's meet by the above and the see you are arresting people for petty crimes so let them go. Then the yes we need more jails but NOT near me.


Here in Edmonton, we believe people are put into prison as punishment, not for punishment.

Of course, it's not a 5 star hotel, but its also not a place where you get beaten by guards or by inmates with the consent of guards.

The Edmonton Max has a reputation for being a very lawless place, and that is what needs to change. If that means all the guards need replacing, then so be it. A prisoners stay there should be mind numbingly boring. Being under constant threat of bodily harm does not let the prisoner reflect on the life choices that brought them there.

As the article states:

Quote:
In his Atlantic Institution case study, Zinger also found a high number of inmate allegations of improper or excessive use of force, including over-reliance on pepper spray and high rates of segregation used at the facility.


Not a way to get a prisoner to reform their ways.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2020 9:01 am
 


Quote:
Quote:In his Atlantic Institution case study, Zinger also found a high number of inmate allegations of improper or excessive use of force, including over-reliance on pepper spray and high rates of segregation used at the facility.Not a way to get a prisoner to reform their ways.


I don't know the conditons but yes I noticed the trend towards pepper spry starting when I was in Corrections. It never got out of hand as far as I know. But you do hit on something that as a society we swing back and forth on. At one point in your above you say
Quote:
Here in Edmonton, we believe people are put into prison as punishment



later you say

Quote:
Not a way to get a prisoner to reform their ways.



Sense at least the late 60's it was put in jail as punishment for the crime 70's I remember hearing that the jail should work on reforming the criminals. Sense then it's been a back and forth type policy change.

IMO as a society we are never happy with the prison system. One see's it as to lax the other see's it has to harsh. I look at it as what crime the person has done in the past and is in for this time should be taken into account what form it should take.

Quote:
A prisoners stay there should be mind numbingly boring.

It is and I can tell you most do reflect on the crime. Yet there are those that spend their time figuring out ways to become better criminals. How to do harm to the guards. Basically it becomes so mind numbing that they try to find anything to occupy their minds and they find ways to get around the system. Con artists really thrive in jails refining their speech and techniques.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2020 9:24 am
 


stratos wrote:
Quote:
Quote:In his Atlantic Institution case study, Zinger also found a high number of inmate allegations of improper or excessive use of force, including over-reliance on pepper spray and high rates of segregation used at the facility.Not a way to get a prisoner to reform their ways.


I don't know the conditons but yes I noticed the trend towards pepper spry starting when I was in Corrections. It never got out of hand as far as I know. But you do hit on something that as a society we swing back and forth on.


The Supreme Court of Canada has made some definitions as to the treatment of prisoners. They are going to look at the use of solitary confinement in the coming weeks.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/suprem ... -1.5462368

That will at least take the choice away from guards, so they can't use it against the prisoners.

stratos wrote:
At one point in your above you say
Quote:
Here in Edmonton, we believe people are put into prison as punishment


later you say

Quote:
Not a way to get a prisoner to reform their ways.


Sense at least the late 60's it was put in jail as punishment for the crime 70's I remember hearing that the jail should work on reforming the criminals. Sense then it's been a back and forth type policy change.


To my knowledge, the Canadian system has always been about reforming the prisoner to become a functioning member of society, not a a dumping ground for the worst society has to offer. The only thing that changes is that the prison experience changes depending on the length of the sentence, and where they are held. The really bad ones are usually held in Kingston, which is a prison built nearly 100 years ago. Not a nice place. The Edmonton Max is also not very nice, but it's newer with more 'perks'.

stratos wrote:
IMO as a society we are never happy with the prison system. One see's it as to lax the other see's it has to harsh. I look at it as what crime the person has done in the past and is in for this time should be taken into account what form it should take.


I think it's similar in the US, but we divide people based on the length of their sentence. Less than 2 years, you go in the provincial system, and have the opportunity for medium or low security prisons. Over 2 years, you go to a federal prison, and if you are in for 10+ years or life, you go to the Maximum security Edmonton Max. Privileges and perks diminish as your sentence increases.

stratos wrote:
Quote:
A prisoners stay there should be mind numbingly boring.

It is and I can tell you most do reflect on the crime. Yet there are those that spend their time figuring out ways to become better criminals. How to do harm to the guards. Basically it becomes so mind numbing that they try to find anything to occupy their minds and they find ways to get around the system. Con artists really thrive in jails refining their speech and techniques.


You might like the design of the new Edmonton Remand center. :)

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Edmon ... 13.5381986

One person to a cell. No outside travel, you attend hearings via video conference.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2020 9:32 am
 


I say we look to the benevolent and peaceful Muslims for leadership on criminal justice reform.

Floggings for misdemeanors.

Amputations for thievery.

Executions for serious crimes.

In their system hardly anyone has their rights violated in a prison. :wink:


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2020 10:17 am
 


Quote:
I think it's similar in the US, but we divide people based on the length of their sentence. Less than 2 years, you go in the provincial system, and have the opportunity for medium or low security prisons. Over 2 years, you go to a federal prison, and if you are in for 10+ years or life, you go to the Maximum security Edmonton Max. Privileges and perks diminish as your sentence increases.



Ours for the most part is a similar type set up.

I've seen the video of jails and courts that do it. I love the idea from the security aspect and video recording of the procedure. Makes our courts even more transparent IMO.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2020 10:31 am
 


stratos wrote:
Quote:
I think it's similar in the US, but we divide people based on the length of their sentence. Less than 2 years, you go in the provincial system, and have the opportunity for medium or low security prisons. Over 2 years, you go to a federal prison, and if you are in for 10+ years or life, you go to the Maximum security Edmonton Max. Privileges and perks diminish as your sentence increases.



Ours for the most part is a similar type set up.

I've seen the video of jails and courts that do it. I love the idea from the security aspect and video recording of the procedure. Makes our courts even more transparent IMO.


It had a side benefit. We have a Sheriffs' service, in the traditional sense, they were part of the court system not Law enforcement. All they did was transport prisoners to and from court hearings. The old Remand center was just across the street from Provincial court.

Now that most court appearance is via video, that leaves Sheriffs freed up. So their role was changed to be law enforcement, but only non-criminal matters.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2020 10:53 am
 


BartSimpson wrote:
I say we look to the benevolent and peaceful Muslims for leadership on criminal justice reform.
You go do that down south and we will watch how it turns out for you!
It sounds like you have great ideas to improve your own damn country!


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