[Newsbot]

Title: Rex Murphy "Useless gun registry"
Category: Law & Order
Posted By: uwish
Date: 2008-05-20 03:23:40
Canadian

[uwish]

he number of Concealed Carry States has double since 1991. 21 more since then for a total of 40 States. Take a look at the second graph (per capita) and see what happened to all rates of crime in the USA:
http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm
United States
Violent Crime 1991 = 758.1 2006 = 473.5
Property Crime 1991 = 5139.7 2006 = 3334.5

Washington DC has a total gun ban there are their stats:
Violent Crime 2006 = 1,508.4 vs National average = 473.5
Property Crime 2006 = 4,653.8 vs National average = 3334.5

Canada strict gun control vs USA very little gun control:
http://www.garrybreitkreuz.com/publi...s/2005/608.htm

Violent Crime
Canada 1999 = 958 2006 = 963
USA 1999 = 525 2006 = 475

Property Crime
Canada 1999 = 4276 2006 = 4121
USA 1999 = 3742 2006 = 3588

25 Years murder Free in 'Gun Town USA' - Kennesaw County Georgia
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=55288

[uwish]

UK enacted a gun ban in 1997, after several years of increasing crime.

Just to be a little more accurate, you'll see an interesting crime graph on page 6 of
http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdf...me0607summ.pdf
showing that in the years after the gun ban, crime has decreased by 41%.
( a scarry bit from the same crime summary is on page 12 -- graphs of Repeat Victimization -- defined as a victim of the same offence two or three or more times in the same year)

This one
http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs07/hosb1107.pdf
pg 47 shows the same trends.

Similarly
http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs08/hosb0308.pdf
pg 11 shows a graph of how crime increased from 1954 until 1998, and thereafter declined.

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs08/hosb0308.pdf
on page 39 we can see that although handgun violence doubled in the 3 years immediately following the ban, it declined slowly thereafter -- and is still higher than it was before. Also, although imitation firearms were practically non-existant before the ban, they are now being used significantly more often.

A similar graph is found on page 72 of
http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs06/hosb1206.pdf
showing that firearm use in the 4 years after the ban doubled, and then leveled off.

Recall that in 2002 the UK changed the way it collects statistics. It used to track conviction sentences by courts. And now it tracks charges by police and crown attorneys, before plea bargans and convictions -- thus the post 2002 statistics are inflated compared to prior 2002. However this does not explain the 1998 to 2001 rise.

Perhaps another question to ask is: why if crime is on the 41% decline, are the numbers of gun use in crime on the rise 100%?

[ridenrain]

"No valuable purpose"
Well said Rex.

[uwish]

I can't wait for a CPC majority when this act (C-68) goes bye-bye.

[ridenrain]

Don't we pretty much have a majority already?
Just make it a confidance vote and watch them scatter.

[Zipperfish]

uwish wrote:

he number of Concealed Carry States has double since 1991. 21 more since then for a total of 40 States. Take a look at the second graph (per capita) and see what happened to all rates of crime in the USA:
http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm
United States
Violent Crime 1991 = 758.1 2006 = 473.5
Property Crime 1991 = 5139.7 2006 = 3334.5

Washington DC has a total gun ban there are their stats:
Violent Crime 2006 = 1,508.4 vs National average = 473.5
Property Crime 2006 = 4,653.8 vs National average = 3334.5

Canada strict gun control vs USA very little gun control:
http://www.garrybreitkreuz.com/publi...s/2005/608.htm

Violent Crime
Canada 1999 = 958 2006 = 963
USA 1999 = 525 2006 = 475

Property Crime
Canada 1999 = 4276 2006 = 4121
USA 1999 = 3742 2006 = 3588

25 Years murder Free in 'Gun Town USA' - Kennesaw County Georgia
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=55288

I'm no fan of the gun registry, but those stats are skewed. In Canada, simple assaults (which make up a large percentage of total assaults) are considered violent crime, whereas in the US only aggravated assault is considered in the violent crime statistics.

As Statistics Canada reported in 2005:

Quote:

Consistent with previous years, police-reported crime data show
that the United States had much higher rates of violent crimes, while
Canada generally had slightly higher levels of property crimes. In
2004, the rate of homicide in the U.S. nearly tripled the rate recorded
in Canada. There were 5.5 homicides per 100,000 population in the
United States, compared to 2.0 homicides per 100,000 in Canada.
The difference in rates was slightly less pronounced for the other
violent crimes. The U.S. recorded a rate of aggravated assault 85%
greater than Canada and a rate of robbery that was 59% higher.

http://www.statcan.ca/english/freepub/85-002-XIE/85-002-XIE2006004.pdf

[fifeboy]

ridenrain wrote:

Don't we pretty much have a majority already?
Just make it a confidance vote and watch them scatter.

Think he'll do it, think he'll do it

[fifeboy]

uwish wrote:

he number of Concealed Carry States has double since 1991. 21 more since then for a total of 40 States. Take a look at the second graph (per capita) and see what happened to all rates of crime in the USA:
http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm
United States
Violent Crime 1991 = 758.1 2006 = 473.5
Property Crime 1991 = 5139.7 2006 = 3334.5

Yep, this is very interesting

I posted this one time before:


According to Wikipedia, the Concealed Carry States are marked with CCS Please tell me if I am wrong. Wikipedia is a well know lefty organization
Murder and nonnegligent manslaughter (per capita) (most recent) by state

District of Columbia: 0.354 per 1,000 people
#2 Puerto Rico: 0.196 per 1,000 people
#3 Louisiana: 0.099 per 1,000 people CCS
#4 Maryland: 0.099 per 1,000 people
#5 Nevada: 0.085 per 1,000 people CCS
#6 Alabama: 0.082 per 1,000 people
#7 Arizona: 0.075 per 1,000 people CCS
#8 South Carolina: 0.074 per 1,000 people CCS
#9 New Mexico: 0.074 per 1,000 people CCS
#10 Mississippi: 0.073 per 1,000 people CCS
#11 Tennessee: 0.072 per 1,000 people CCS
#12 California: 0.069 per 1,000 people
#13 Missouri: 0.069 per 1,000 people CCS
#14 Arkansas: 0.067 per 1,000 people CCS
#15 North Carolina: 0.067 per 1,000 people CCS
#16 Texas: 0.062 per 1,000 people CCS
#17 Georgia: 0.062 per 1,000 people CCS
#18 Michigan: 0.061 per 1,000 people CCS
#19 Pennsylvania: 0.061 per 1,000 people CCS
#20 Virginia: 0.061 per 1,000 people CCS
#21 Illinois: 0.06 per 1,000 people
#22 Indiana: 0.057 per 1,000 people CCS
#23 Oklahoma: 0.053 per 1,000 people CCS
#24 Ohio: 0.051 per 1,000 people CCS
#25 Florida: 0.05 per 1,000 people
#26 New Jersey: 0.048 per 1,000 people
#27 Alaska: 0.048 per 1,000 people CCS
#28 Kentucky: 0.046 per 1,000 people CCS
#29 New York: 0.045 per 1,000 people
#30 West Virginia: 0.044 per 1,000 people CCS
#31 Delaware: 0.044 per 1,000 people
#32 Colorado: 0.037 per 1,000 people CCS
#33 Kansas: 0.037 per 1,000 people CCS
#34 Wisconsin: 0.035 per 1,000 people
#35 Washington: 0.033 per 1,000 people CCS
#36 Rhode Island: 0.032 per 1,000 people
#37 Connecticut: 0.029 per 1,000 people
#38 Wyoming: 0.027 per 1,000 people CCS
#39 Massachusetts: 0.027 per 1,000 people
#40 Nebraska: 0.025 per 1,000 people CCS
#41 Idaho: 0.024 per 1,000 people
#42 Utah: 0.023 per 1,000 people CCS
#43 South Dakota: 0.023 per 1,000 peopleCCS
#44 Oregon: 0.022 per 1,000 people CCS
#45 Minnesota: 0.022 per 1,000 people CCS
#46 Hawaii: 0.019 per 1,000 people
#47 Montana: 0.019 per 1,000 people CCS
#48 New Hampshire: 0.014 per 1,000 people CCS
#49 Maine: 0.014 per 1,000 people CCS
#50 Iowa: 0.013 per 1,000 people
#51 Vermont: 0.013 per 1,000 people
#52 North Dakota: 0.011 per 1,000 people CCS
Perhaps someone with a better statistics background could look at this data and tell us that there is a strong correlation between Concealed Carry Laws and low murder rates, but I don't see it.

uwish wrote:

Washington DC has a total gun ban there are their stats:
Violent Crime 2006 = 1,508.4 vs National average = 473.5
Property Crime 2006 = 4,653.8 vs National average = 3334.5

Washington D.C. eh! Proves everything?

uwish wrote:

Canada strict gun control vs USA very little gun control:
http://www.garrybreitkreuz.com/publi...s/2005/608.htm

Strict gun control? You have to be kidding. Like how many Canadians own legal firearms. I bet you think it's only Liberal Party supporters who are allowed to own guns. Opps, I vote NDP and own firearms.

uwish wrote:

Violent Crime
Canada 1999 = 958 2006 = 963
USA 1999 = 525 2006 = 475

Property Crime
Canada 1999 = 4276 2006 = 4121
USA 1999 = 3742 2006 = 3588

I think Zipperfish took care of this!

uwish wrote:

25 Years murder Free in 'Gun Town USA' - Kennesaw County Georgia
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=55288

I wonder how many towns of population. 25,816, like Kennesaw Georgia can say they are 25 years without a murder? Oh and by the way, Georgia ranks #17 out of 52!

[herbie]

Now all you have to do is show some proof the two things have anything to do with each other, and you'll have a legit 'argument'.
In the meantime, if you want to push the idea that the way reduce gun crime is to permit more people to carry concealed weapons, you're only proving the insane don't know they're insane...

[Toro]

ridenrain wrote:

Don't we pretty much have a majority already?
Just make it a confidance vote and watch them scatter.

So true.

Rex Murphy alone almost makes me think we should keep the CBC around.

[travior]

A true indicator would be to see which states had the best improvements in their murder/manslaughter rates. Other things that need to be taken into consideration would be what percentage of the population actually had a CWP in each state that allowed it. If a state is a CCS and a small percentage of the population has a CWP then those numbers are meaningless.

The key to Kennesaw is that the town REQUIRES everyone to own a gun. Whether they carry it or not doesn't matter, just the knowledge that there is a very high probability of the other person being armed instead of unarmed and helpless, makes any criminal think twice about commiting the act.

[fifeboy]

travior wrote:

A true indicator would be to see which states had the best improvements in their murder/manslaughter rates. Other things that need to be taken into consideration would be what percentage of the population actually had a CWP in each state that allowed it. If a state is a CCS and a small percentage of the population has a CWP then those numbers are meaningless..

So, any data?

travior wrote:

The key to Kennesaw is that the town REQUIRES everyone to own a gun. Whether they carry it or not doesn't matter, just the knowledge that there is a very high probability of the other person being armed instead of unarmed and helpless, makes any criminal think twice about commiting the act.

Requires everyone to own a gun. Now I see it, the reason Quebec City has the lowest homicide rate in Canada (1.2 100 000) is because they own so many guns. If only the government could see to REQUIRE everyone, men, women, childern, infants, the infirm, the insane and the feeble minded to own a gun, it would reduce its murder rate to 0. It's so simple .

[BartSimpson]

fifeboy wrote:

I posted this one time before:....


#51 Vermont: 0.013 per 1,000 people

Vermont is a Shall Carry state where you do not need a permit to carry a gun. If you can legally own a gun in Vermont you can legally carry it if you feel like it.

And this helps go the point that Wiki is not exactly a reliable source of information.

[fifeboy]

BartSimpson wrote:

fifeboy wrote:

I posted this one time before:....


#51 Vermont: 0.013 per 1,000 people

Vermont is a Shall Carry state where you do not need a permit to carry a gun. If you can legally own a gun in Vermont you can legally carry it if you feel like it.

And this helps go the point that Wiki is not exactly a reliable source of information.

Like I said, many consider Wiki to be a tool of the left, right. When this data was put on wiki, I suppose Vermont would have not been a CCS. SO now it is. Will its homicide rate fall? Time will tell. If some people get their way, every state in the union will have concealed carry laws. I wonder if the homicide rate will fall to .013 per 1000 people nation wide? Until then, I wish you luck.

By the way, where ya been, is this a busy time of the year for you?