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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2018 2:54 pm
 


llama66 wrote:
I am not upset by it, but I do think NCR should mean you do at least 10 years in a hospital where they can help you. You get "Paroled" not when you feel better, but when your sentence is up.


What you describe is prison and defeats the whole purpose NCR. What’s the point of NCR if you’re still going to convict and sentence them to fuxed term?

You would release a mentally ill oerson who is not better simply because their time is up? That doesn’t make sense.

Not responsible means not responsible. Full stop. She’s no more responsible for what happened than a driver who has a heart attack behind the wheel and kils someone.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2018 3:10 pm
 


Prof_Chomsky wrote:
housewife wrote:
The biggest problem with this is that once anyone is released who checks to make sure that they continue to take their medication forever. People get lost in the system all the time.

We had a guy when I was working down town. He would stop taking his meds get kicked out of the place he was staying eventually his guardian would look for him. You would think that the home he staying would report his change of character before they had to kick him out to his guardian. Meanwhile he was belligerent and aggressive and lived on the streets. He also was very educated with a huge amount of knowledge of history so sometimes we got a lesson instead of aggression. You never knew what you were getting into when he came in. There are lots of people wandering the streets in the same boat some are very close to a violent confrontation. For something as simple as suggesting that they get a warm soup on a cold day


I think that's how the "not guilty by reason of insanity" plea holds crazy people though. They get put into a mental institution for the criminally insane, until they are no longer a threat to the public. And since you can't cure schizophrenia, they stay there until they're dead in the vast majority of cases. Which is better than 25 years to life.


There are very few offenders found to be NCR and the vast majority are of those are for non-violent crimes. I doubt most schizophrenic NCR offenders spend the rest of their life in hospital as you don’t have to “cure” schizophrenia to ensure they’re no longer a threat to the public. The recidivism rate for NCR offenders as a whole is half that of “sane” offenders and the recidivism rate for violent crime NCR offenders is virtually zero because of the care exercised before during and after release.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2018 3:53 pm
 


BeaverFever wrote:
llama66 wrote:
I am not upset by it, but I do think NCR should mean you do at least 10 years in a hospital where they can help you. You get "Paroled" not when you feel better, but when your sentence is up.


What you describe is prison and defeats the whole purpose NCR. What’s the point of NCR if you’re still going to convict and sentence them to fuxed term?

You would release a mentally ill oerson who is not better simply because their time is up? That doesn’t make sense.

Not responsible means not responsible. Full stop. She’s no more responsible for what happened than a driver who has a heart attack behind the wheel and kils someone.

What I describe is a treatment facility. I'm sorry, but you don't allow people like this (mentally ill) to just roam around. this "prison"(as you call it) is for the patient's protection as well as the public's.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2018 5:15 pm
 


llama66 wrote:
BeaverFever wrote:
llama66 wrote:
I am not upset by it, but I do think NCR should mean you do at least 10 years in a hospital where they can help you. You get "Paroled" not when you feel better, but when your sentence is up.


What you describe is prison and defeats the whole purpose NCR. What’s the point of NCR if you’re still going to convict and sentence them to fuxed term?

You would release a mentally ill oerson who is not better simply because their time is up? That doesn’t make sense.

Not responsible means not responsible. Full stop. She’s no more responsible for what happened than a driver who has a heart attack behind the wheel and kils someone.

What I describe is a treatment facility. I'm sorry, but you don't allow people like this (mentally ill) to just roam around. this "prison"(as you call it) is for the patient's protection as well as the public's.


If that’s the case then the duration of their stay in the treatment facility should be dictated solely by their condition and treatment and wouldn’t have some arbitrary minimum sentence as you previously proposed.

And where do you get the notion that NCR people are being allowed to just “roam around “? That’s not the case. They’re in a treatment facility until it’s determined they no longer need to be in one. Maybe that’s 5 years or 10 years or the rest of their life depending in their diagnosis and response to treatment


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2018 5:28 pm
 


And after they’re “cured” they’re dumped unceremoniously on the streets where many are missed, even if they are lucky and end up in some manner of housing, they devolve without the structure they had inside the facility. Then usually, they stop taking meds and now suddenly we’re back to where we started... the person has become a potential ticking time bomb. It’s good you weigh the rights of these people who plead NCR over the public, and the people they victimized.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2018 5:58 pm
 


Quote:
It’s good you weigh the rights of these people who plead NCR over the public, and the people they victimized.

They aren't the rights of "these people" they're the rights of ALL people. And you weigh them against a slim possibility, not what the jargon claims.
need the structure
they stop taking their meds
dumped on the streets
potential ticking time bomb
Everything everyone with zero mental health knowledge or experience says every day.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2018 6:28 pm
 


llama66 wrote:
And after they’re “cured” they’re dumped unceremoniously on the streets where many are missed, even if they are lucky and end up in some manner of housing, they devolve without the structure they had inside the facility. Then usually, they stop taking meds and now suddenly we’re back to where we started... the person has become a potential ticking time bomb. It’s good you weigh the rights of these people who plead NCR over the public, and the people they victimized.



Where are you getting your info from? It’s not correct. Nobody’s ever been declared “cured” or simply dumped on the street upon release and as I already said, their reoffence rate is half that of sane people and their violent reoffece rate is virtually zero.


Rights are not a zero-sum game and upholding the rights of the ill doesn’t subtract any rights from the accused or the public.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2018 10:07 pm
 


herbie wrote:
Quote:
It’s good you weigh the rights of these people who plead NCR over the public, and the people they victimized.

They aren't the rights of "these people" they're the rights of ALL people. And you weigh them against a slim possibility, not what the jargon claims.
need the structure
they stop taking their meds
dumped on the streets
potential ticking time bomb
Everything everyone with zero mental health knowledge or experience says every day.

Only I have some experience in this. It's called institutionalization, some people find some comfort in being told what to do and when to do it. It's why some criminals reoffend right after being released. I spent 6 years in group homes and treatment centers for reasons listed on another thread.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 10:46 pm
 


DrCaleb wrote:
CDN_PATRIOT wrote:
Once again, our justice system is a complete and utter joke. Beyond disgusting!


-J.


Punishment handed out by public opinion is vengeance, not justice.


Kill someone cause you don't like their face, 25 years.
Kill someone because they looked at your woman, 25 years.
Kill someone because they don't follow your religion, 25 years.
Kill someone because you're crazy, 25 years.

Nothing to do with vengeance.
How cheaply most value an innocent's life here is shocking.

Not shocking to see the leftists waving their NCR flag proudly. Go ahead and treat them for the next 25 years. The horse left the barn when the knife was plunged into
the poor woman's heart.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 11:18 pm
 


I see prison mainly as an instrument to detain people who are a danger to the public. In the case of violent crime, dangerous non-psychotic offenders, the vast majority, should not be punished vindictively for what they do but should be kept behind bars until they are no longer a danger to the public. Prisons should be made as pleasant as possible because that will make them safer for inmates and staff alike. Rehabilitation can occur, especially with younger offenders, but punishment is a waste of time, money and energy.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 12:31 am
 


newz wrote:
DrCaleb wrote:
CDN_PATRIOT wrote:
Once again, our justice system is a complete and utter joke. Beyond disgusting!


-J.


Punishment handed out by public opinion is vengeance, not justice.


Kill someone cause you don't like their face, 25 years.
Kill someone because they looked at your woman, 25 years.
Kill someone because they don't follow your religion, 25 years.
Kill someone because you're crazy, 25 years.

Nothing to do with vengeance.
How cheaply most value an innocent's life here is shocking.

Not shocking to see the leftists waving their NCR flag proudly. Go ahead and treat them for the next 25 years. The horse left the barn when the knife was plunged into
the poor woman's heart.


How many years do you think you should get if you kill someone because you had a heart attack while behind the wheel of car?


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 11:53 pm
 


BeaverFever wrote:
How many years do you think you should get if you kill someone because you had a heart attack while behind the wheel of car?


Apples and oranges


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2018 7:24 am
 


newz wrote:
BeaverFever wrote:
How many years do you think you should get if you kill someone because you had a heart attack while behind the wheel of car?


Apples and oranges

How so? A mentally ill person having a psychotic episode has no more control over their actions than a driver having a heart attack has control over their car


Last edited by BeaverFever on Sun Nov 11, 2018 10:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2018 5:58 pm
 


Prof_Chomsky wrote:
DrCaleb wrote:
CDN_PATRIOT wrote:
Once again, our justice system is a complete and utter joke. Beyond disgusting!


-J.


Punishment handed out by public opinion is vengeance, not justice.


[B-o] Exactly! We're a few thousand years past the mob that starts stoning people fortunately.
'

And yet alot of people are all in favour of it when it suits their political purpose.

We can't have it both ways. If people truly want the court of public opinion to be the sole arbitrator of guilt or innocence then we'd better be prepared for a complete breakdown of society because when that happens accusations not truth become the only requirement to make a finding.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2018 6:09 pm
 


The orville actually did a great episode of the "court of public opinion".


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