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PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 3:14 am
 


Title: Sea King helicopter replacement hits a new snag
Category: Military
Posted By: Hyack
Date: 2013-06-25 17:33:02
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 3:14 am
 


I've seen three ring circuses that are better organized than this procurement program.

Word was Sikorsky damn well knew they couldn't meet a 2008 delivery, but they overpromised to win the job.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 6:23 am
 


Buy European.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 6:49 am
 


Chretien did an awesome job of screwing this procurement. The original birds were supposed to land in 1997 with their last delivery 2000.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 6:50 am
 


The Airforce beg them not to purchase anything from sikorsky


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 6:51 am
 


-Wario- wrote:
Chretien did an awesome job of screwing this procurement. The original birds were supposed to land in 1997 with their last delivery 2000.


The CPC has not done much better.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 6:56 am
 


CPC were stuck. The problem is all at Sikorsky from this point on.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 6:56 am
 


It's reading crap like this that makes me glad I'm retired from the Navy. And I agree with Gunnair, next time look to Europe first.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 7:14 am
 


Gunnair wrote:
Buy European.


No doubt - I wonder why the NFH-90 wasn't considered;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NHIndustries_NH90


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 7:14 am
 


The NH-90 was the second bird Canada was looking at and went with the EH-101.

NH-90 is still available, Scrap the Cyclone!!!


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 7:42 am
 


bootlegga wrote:
Gunnair wrote:
Buy European.


No doubt - I wonder why the NFH-90 wasn't considered;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NHIndustries_NH90


It was considered. The MHP was a three way contest between the EH 101, NH 90, and the Superhawk.

DND rejected the NH 90 as not meeting their requirements. Too small I believe.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 7:55 am
 


-Wario- wrote:
CPC were stuck. The problem is all at Sikorsky from this point on.


Really? They had no choice but to go with Sikorsky?


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 8:50 am
 


Gunnair wrote:
-Wario- wrote:
CPC were stuck. The problem is all at Sikorsky from this point on.


Really? They had no choice but to go with Sikorsky?


Well it was either them or the outfit that makes the NH 90.

The Liberals wouldn't have bought the EH 101.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 11:00 am
 


saturn_656 wrote:
I've seen three ring circuses that are better organized than this procurement program.

Word was Sikorsky damn well knew they couldn't meet a 2008 delivery, but they overpromised to win the job.


Well, if the CF had simply ordered the S-92 instead of demanding that Sikorsky develop a whole new platform that incorporates a plethora of Canadian-manufactured equipment from firms who buy influence in Ottawa then you'd have these helicopters by now.

Instead the CF f*cked up this procurement along the exact same lines they botched the procurement of the Leopard tanks by requiring Canadian-made equipment be crowbarred into a platform that wasn't designed for it.

The most egregious f*ck up with the Leopard involved the optics for the main gun. The German optics adjusted for temperature variations while the Canadian optics didn't. That meant that once the Canadian optics were mounted to the turret they were only accurate at the exact temperature at which they were aligned. At any other temperature they were useless.

Likewise with the CH-148 Sikorsky the CF has so extensively redesigned the H-92 that even the CF auditor general weighed in:

Quote:
Canada's auditor general slammed National Defence over the Cyclone purchase two years ago, saying the department underestimated the complexity of developing the helicopter and wrongly defined it as being an "off-the-shelf" purchase.


Meaning that the CF did NOT order a mere 'variant' of the H-92 - they ordered a whole new platform to be developed by Sikorsky just for the CF.

And, as is typical of CF procurements, your government threw out the military-grade avionics package that had already been designed for the H-92 in favor of having a whole new system created from the ground-up by General Dynamics Canada. And then the damned system required the CH-148 to be redesigned yet again when the wiring harness didn't match up to what was previously specified for the CH-148.

Thus your government waived the late fee penalties on Sikorskty because Sikorsky made it clear that the delays originated from the CF specifying their own avionics package and then delivering a package that did not mesh with the airframe that they had also specified.

Memo: Stop with this Canadian content crap and just buy whatever the hell your vendors offer you that is tried and proven. It's cheaper and easier to support.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 11:04 am
 


BartSimpson wrote:
saturn_656 wrote:
I've seen three ring circuses that are better organized than this procurement program.

Word was Sikorsky damn well knew they couldn't meet a 2008 delivery, but they overpromised to win the job.


Well, if the CF had simply ordered the S-92 instead of demanding that Sikorsky develop a whole new platform that incorporates a plethora of Canadian-manufactured equipment from firms who buy influence in Ottawa then you'd have these helicopters by now.

Instead the CF f*cked up this procurement along the exact same lines they botched the procurement of the Leopard tanks by requiring Canadian-made equipment be crowbarred into a platform that wasn't designed for it.

The most egregious f*ck up with the Leopard involved the optics for the main gun. The German optics adjusted for temperature variations while the Canadian optics didn't. That meant that once the Canadian optics were mounted to the turret they were only accurate at the exact temperature at which they were aligned. At any other temperature they were useless.

Likewise with the CH-148 Sikorsky the CF has so extensively redesigned the H-92 that even the CF auditor general weighed in:

Quote:
Canada's auditor general slammed National Defence over the Cyclone purchase two years ago, saying the department underestimated the complexity of developing the helicopter and wrongly defined it as being an "off-the-shelf" purchase.


Meaning that the CF did NOT order a mere 'variant' of the H-92 - they ordered a whole new platform to be developed by Sikorsky just for the CF.

And, as is typical of CF procurements, your government threw out the military-grade avionics package that had already been designed for the H-92 in favor of having a whole new system created from the ground-up by General Dynamics Canada. And then the damned system required the CH-148 to be redesigned yet again when the wiring harness didn't match up to what was previously specified for the CH-148.

Thus your government waived the late fee penalties on Sikorskty because Sikorsky made it clear that the delays originated from the CF specifying their own avionics package and then delivering a package that did not mesh with the airframe that they had also specified.

Memo: Stop with this Canadian content crap and just buy whatever the hell your vendors offer you that is tried and proven. It's cheaper and easier to support.


I just noted on my calendar - I agree with Bart.

Wow.


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