[desertdude]

Hmmmmmm.............

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ahmed-reh ... 93579.html

[andyt]

Good find. I especially like the point the article makes that calling the mosque insensitive is painting all Muslims with the same brush. In which case the argument should be no more Muslim immigration, deport those who can be and intern the rest. And it may yet come to that, as it did with the Japanese.

[desertdude]

I wouldn't be surprised at all if that happens or worse. Most of the gruesome crimes against humanity in living memory have beginings like this. When slowly by slowly one group of people are singled out in a community for whatever reason and depicted as a threat and enemy, eventually it reaches fever pitch and then all hell breaks loose.

The USA has also show it is not immune to domestic violence. Watts and the Rodney King Riots. It could have very well started with the stabbing of the New York cabbie near "Sacred Ground"

[andyt]

The thing is that the more we get cases like the recent arrests in Ottawa, the more even reasonably sane people like me will support harsh measures. The Muslim community these guys come from is closing up, telling each other not to talk to authorities, etc - exactly the wrong response and on that won't win them any friends. Muslims need to turn in Muslims that are plotting jihad.

[Guy_Fawkes]

andyt wrote:

The thing is that the more we get cases like the recent arrests in Ottawa, the more even reasonably sane people like me will support harsh measures. The Muslim community these guys come from is closing up, telling each other not to talk to authorities, etc - exactly the wrong response and on that won't win them any friends. Muslims need to turn in Muslims that are plotting jihad.

Bingo.

[desertdude]

And how do you think these people get caught. Its usually muslims informants or undercover people working closely with them.

These are usually a close knit group of weirdos planing such things. Not like every one knows five or six terrorist and just don't want to turn in their brethren.

This argument has been debunked many times over that the sane are not speaking out against the loons, its just it doesn't grab headline news.

And could very well be vice versa. How many spoke out against the NY cabby stabber which was clearly a hate crime or turned him in ? Even here there were at best 5 mediocre responses against it.

[CanadianJeff]

You nailed it Andyt. The Muslim world is still in the dark ages.

[sandorski]

andyt wrote:

The thing is that the more we get cases like the recent arrests in Ottawa, the more even reasonably sane people like me will support harsh measures. The Muslim community these guys come from is closing up, telling each other not to talk to authorities, etc - exactly the wrong response and on that won't win them any friends. Muslims need to turn in Muslims that are plotting jihad.

The measures currently in place are working rather well. I don't see how anything else could be done that has better results.

[andyt]

desertdude wrote:

And how do you think these people get caught. Its usually muslims informants or undercover people working closely with them.

These are usually a close knit group of weirdos planing such things. Not like every one knows five or six terrorist and just don't want to turn in their brethren.

This argument has been debunked many times over that the sane are not speaking out against the loons, its just it doesn't grab headline news.

And could very well be vice versa. How many spoke out against the NY cabby stabber which was clearly a hate crime or turned him in ? Even here there were at best 5 mediocre responses against it.

Actually, two of the three arrested - the two medical professionals, were very social, playing hockey in a Muslim league (why do we need separate religious leagues) etc, and I believe it's their friends that are closing ranks.

The main guy sounds like a loser. He was frustrated that he couldn't advance professionally because his English was so bad - what does he expect. He started an ESL course and dropped out, then an electrical engineering course and dropped that after one semester too. He's probably the one who infected the other two, and maybe even duped them to some degree. (Note to forum rabid dogs - this is just my conjecture, I have no links or other proof to back it up.)

I do think western Muslims are torn between being loyal to other Muslims and doing what's right for Canada. While I understand, I have absolutely no sympathy for them if they don't do the right thing and turn the fuckers in. They're just as guilty otherwise in my eyes.

[desertdude]

sandorski wrote:

andyt wrote:

The thing is that the more we get cases like the recent arrests in Ottawa, the more even reasonably sane people like me will support harsh measures. The Muslim community these guys come from is closing up, telling each other not to talk to authorities, etc - exactly the wrong response and on that won't win them any friends. Muslims need to turn in Muslims that are plotting jihad.

The measures currently in place are working rather well. I don't see how anything else could be done that has better results.

Exactly it was a job well done and deserve a pat on the back, stopped these idiotic fools before anything happened. I would call it a big win for the authorities.

[andyt]

sandorski wrote:

andyt wrote:

The thing is that the more we get cases like the recent arrests in Ottawa, the more even reasonably sane people like me will support harsh measures. The Muslim community these guys come from is closing up, telling each other not to talk to authorities, etc - exactly the wrong response and on that won't win them any friends. Muslims need to turn in Muslims that are plotting jihad.

The measures currently in place are working rather well. I don't see how anything else could be done that has better results.

We non-Muslims need to reach out to Muslims living here, and not alienate them. Things like the ground zero crap is not helpful at all. But we also need to make it clear that we expect them to do what every other citizen is asked - to turn in the evildoers, even if they are your religious brethren. I have no sympathy for somebody who knows gang bangers and what they're up to and doesn't report that, and I have none for Muslims that do the same thing with their "brothers". You're either a Canadian first, or get the fuck out of the country.

They've now arrested another person in Canada - makes 4 so far. The argument is bandied about that we have these 4, the TO 11 (7 others were found not guilty) and a couple of others, so it's not many. I'll go with the idea that for every one we catch, there's 10 or more that we don't. Look at murder among gang bangers, very rare they are solved because of the code of silence. I think that same applies to jihad.

[desertdude]

Agree on that one Andy, if anybody from their friends or associates knew about this and didn't do squat they should be arrested for being an accessory to terrorism.

Although I haven't read or seen anything which does say this though. I don't see an issue with any muslim loyalty as such as there is nothing anywhere that says one has to take a muslims side no matter what.

That is tribal, fuedal and gang mentality though. Why do you think people from Northern Pakistan don't migrate much to other countries. While people from southern pakistan do. Because then these people loose the protection and unquestioned loyalty of their tribes or clans.

[desertdude]

Anyways getting back on topic..................

[andyt]

desertdude wrote:

Agree on that one Andy, if anybody from their friends or associates knew about this and didn't do squat they should be arrested for being an accessory to terrorism.

Although I haven't read or seen anything which does say this though. I don't see an issue with any muslim loyalty as such as there is nothing anywhere that says one has to take a muslims side no matter what.

That is tribal, fuedal and gang mentality though. Why do you think people from Northern Pakistan don't migrate much to other countries. While people from southern pakistan do. Because then these people loose the protection and unquestioned loyalty of their tribes or clans.

Just to get off topic again, I've heard it expressed often, Muslims ueber alles - it's that mentality that's behind a lot of jihad anyway - they're killing Muslims in Astan, so we've got to kill them where they live, even tho the majority of Muslims in Astan want us to kill the ones we're killing.

[ttruscott]

andyt wrote:

... painting all Muslims with the same brush. In which case the argument should be no more Muslim immigration, deport those who can be and intern the rest. And it may yet come to that, as it did with the Japanese.

It is the Koran that does this,and that is why if you live apostate, (ie, like a western satanist) you are fair gain for their bombs. Because, as we all know, Moslems are not allowed to kill Moslems.