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PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2019 7:14 am
 


Title: The spectre of political interference linking SNC-Lavalin to the Norman trial
Category: Political
Posted By: Freakinoldguy
Date: 2019-03-30 16:40:52
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2019 7:14 am
 


Wilson-Raybould is chin deep in this travesty of justice too. Should be the final come-upance for her and the rest of the crew involved in trying to smear the Vice-Admirals good name because they wanted a different shipyard to build the ship.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2019 8:37 am
 


Mowich wrote:
trying to smear the Vice-Admirals good name because they wanted a different shipyard to build the ship.


Where’s the evidence to support that claim? The RCMP doesn’t just go around arresting people on the PM’s orders.

Given your comments it’s somewhat Ironic that in addition to allegedly sharing restricted documents with Davies shipbuilding through his personal email, Norman and a Davies executive are alleged to have actively conspired to publicly smear the reputations of several DND officials and retired naval officers who were involved in the project and opposed to the Davies contract.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2019 11:28 am
 


BeaverFever wrote:
Mowich wrote:
trying to smear the Vice-Admirals good name because they wanted a different shipyard to build the ship.


Where’s the evidence to support that claim? The RCMP doesn’t just go around arresting people on the PM’s orders.

Given your comments it’s somewhat Ironic that in addition to allegedly sharing restricted documents with Davies shipbuilding through his personal email, Norman and a Davies executive are alleged to have actively conspired to publicly smear the reputations of several DND officials and retired naval officers who were involved in the project and opposed to the Davies contract.



That's right the RCMP doesn't arrest people on the PM's orders. But that's not the issue here. The issue is the PM's office, the PM, the MND, the CDS and the Attorney General are accused of conspiring to ensure a favourable outcome for the gov't of a supposedly unbiased court case.

At this point nobody knows if Admiral Norman is guilty as charged but they know for sure that he's being screwed over because of this supposed solicitor client privilege that the former Attorney General uses when it conveniences her.

So let me break it down:

PM's office requests an investigation into the leak of information that is embarrassing the gov't;
RCMP investigate and claim it was Admiral Norman who was the leak;
RCMP arrest Admiral Norman on Breach of Trust charges'
The Crown acquires all evidence necessary to prepare for a court case;
The Star Chamber meets to "allegedly" plan a strategy that ensure Admiral Norman will be found guilty;
Scott Brison resigns (yes he was involved in the plan);
Admiral Normans defense team requests the evidence relating to that meeting and any other pertinent evidence;
The gov't stone walls for months and then, when they finally release any of the requested information it's so heavily redacted as to be useless.

Can you see the pattern here? The PMO's office tries interfering in the SNC Lavalin case, the PM is accused of interfering in the selection of the Supreme Court Justices and the PM and attorney General are accused of interfering in the justice system to ensure the favourable outcome of trials involving natives.

So sure, this group of individuals didn't interfere in the Admiral Norman case because that would be completely out of character for them. ROTFL

Now more about Scott Brison's part in the whole affair.

But this statement is the kicker.

Quote:
For example, the newly released documents say a copy of secret briefing materials on the ministers’ meeting were found on the computer of a lobbyist for Davie and had been sent by another civil servant days before the meeting – an apparent leak that hasn’t led to charges.

Davie officials also told the RCMP that they’d been alerted to the meeting by numerous sources before it happened, and had even been asked by federal officials whether they would be open to delaying the contract pending a review.


https://globalnews.ca/news/4694637/vice ... tt-brison/

Nope, nothing untoward being done by the gov't, right. If the gov't wasn't using Norman as a scapegoat these other "leaks" would have been investigated and the people responsible charged but nothing like that has happened. [huh]


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2019 2:48 pm
 


Freakinoldguy wrote:


Can you see the pattern here? The PMO's office tries interfering in the SNC Lavalin case,


AFAIK Norman’s defence lawyers only made the interference accusations after the SNC affair broke. That’s not a pattern.

Quote:
the PM is accused of interfering in the selection of the Supreme Court Justices
. No he’s not. The PM has sole authority to appoint Supreme Court Justices. The AG only recomends but the PM is not obligated to follow it. In this case, Raybould’s recommendation was not only to appoint her chosen candidate to the SC but to make this new member the Chief Justice of the SC, which is virtually unheard of in Canadian history. The role of SC Chief Justice has always been awarded to an already-sitting member of the SC for obvious reasons, except on one occasion, and that was 111 years ago, in 1908.

Interestingly enough JWRs choice candidate is vocally anti-Charter and thinks the charter takes too much power away from government so he would have actually made Trudeau MORE powerful.

Quote:
and the PM and attorney General are accused of interfering in the justice system to ensure the favourable outcome of trials involving natives.


FOR THE THIRD TIME: THAT IS A LIE. Don’t you guys even have the basic intellectual curiosity to google any your regurgitated claims to find out if there’s any truth to them?


As for Davie, it ultimately got the contract and then it also got another even bigger one for icebreakers didn’t it? Doesn’t sound like a conspiracy to me.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2019 3:17 pm
 


BeaverFever wrote:
Freakinoldguy wrote:


Can you see the pattern here? The PMO's office tries interfering in the SNC Lavalin case,


AFAIK Norman’s defence lawyers only made the interference accusations after the SNC affair broke. That’s not a pattern.

Quote:
the PM is accused of interfering in the selection of the Supreme Court Justices
. No he’s not. The PM has sole authority to appoint Supreme Court Justices. The AG only recomends but the PM is not obligated to follow it. In this case, Raybould’s recommendation was not only to appoint her chosen candidate to the SC but to make this new member the Chief Justice of the SC, which is virtually unheard of in Canadian history. The role of SC Chief Justice has always been awarded to an already-sitting member of the SC for obvious reasons, except on one occasion, and that was 111 years ago, in 1908.

Interestingly enough JWRs choice candidate is vocally anti-Charter and thinks the charter takes too much power away from government so he would have actually made Trudeau MORE powerful.

Quote:
and the PM and attorney General are accused of interfering in the justice system to ensure the favourable outcome of trials involving natives.


FOR THE THIRD TIME: THAT IS A LIE. Don’t you guys even have the basic intellectual curiosity to google any your regurgitated claims to find out if there’s any truth to them?


As for Davie, it ultimately got the contract and then it also got another even bigger one for icebreakers didn’t it? Doesn’t sound like a conspiracy to me.


Of course Admiral Norman's defense requested all documents related to the investigation and the meeting of the Star Chamber about how to proceed with the case and who wouldn't? You have the PM being caught red handed trying to influence one court case so there's a very good chance he and others might have done the same in the Norman case especially since nobody but Norman was charged despite all the evidence that showed it could have been any number of people.

So, sure they requested the documents and evidence and guess what they got? A bunch of redacted evidence that's less than useful for a defense and do you know why it was redacted? Claims of solicitor client privilege. And do you know why that's a problem? Because JWR decided that the solicitor client privilege didn't apply when she went about torpedoing Trudeau but when it may sink her ship, it suddenly applies in spades.

Nobody said anyone is guilty of anything.....yet, because nobody has proven that Trudeau is guilty of what he's accused of with SNC Lavalin, the Norman Case, the Supreme Court or the justice system. What they do know is that he and his friends have been ACCUSED of doing those things and that's where the pattern comes in.

Also, this isn't about what Davie got or didn't get. It's about leaking gov't documents, not awarding contracts. It's about who leaked Scott Brison's decision to scrap the tanker contract and it's about a group of gov't officials meeting to find a way to ensure that the court case against the only person charged in the affair went the Gov'ts way which, if true might be considered interfering in the justice system and is at the least less than ethical behaviour.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2019 4:06 pm
 


Current Liberal government.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2019 5:05 pm
 


Freakinoldguy wrote:
Star Chamber
What's a star chamber?

Quote:
Claims of solicitor client privilege. And do you know why that's a problem? Because JWR decided that the solicitor client privilege didn't apply when she went about torpedoing Trudeau but when it may sink her ship, it suddenly applies in spades.
Wasn't she released of privilege regarding SNC by Trudeau?


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2019 2:26 pm
 


Tricks wrote:
Freakinoldguy wrote:
Star Chamber
What's a star chamber?

Quote:
Claims of solicitor client privilege. And do you know why that's a problem? Because JWR decided that the solicitor client privilege didn't apply when she went about torpedoing Trudeau but when it may sink her ship, it suddenly applies in spades.
Wasn't she released of privilege regarding SNC by Trudeau?




The Star Chamber was originally an English court of law which sat at the royal Palace of Westminster, and was composed of Privy Councillors and common-law judges, used to supplement the judicial activities of the common-law and equity courts in civil and criminal matters. ,


But, in today's terms it more often refers to, legal or administrative bodies who issue strict, arbitrary rulings after secretive proceedings. It is also often used to cast doubt on the legitimacy or legality of the participants and what they're doing.

But, you're absolutely right. JWR was released from her obligations as a solicitor in the SNC Lavalin affair by her "client" the Canadian Gov't. A fact which is what makes their stance on releasing the requested information unredacted for Admiral Norman's defense team so baffling. They seem to be willing to hide information from those people and the public but have no problem when it comes to the SNC Lavalin affair?

The optics are extremely bad when they allow JWR to sink the Prime Minister but won't allow a man who's accused of a crime the information to defend himself and it makes it look like they're hell bent on hiding something.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 8:34 am
 


Freakinoldguy wrote:
BeaverFever wrote:
Mowich wrote:
trying to smear the Vice-Admirals good name because they wanted a different shipyard to build the ship.


Where’s the evidence to support that claim? The RCMP doesn’t just go around arresting people on the PM’s orders.

Given your comments it’s somewhat Ironic that in addition to allegedly sharing restricted documents with Davies shipbuilding through his personal email, Norman and a Davies executive are alleged to have actively conspired to publicly smear the reputations of several DND officials and retired naval officers who were involved in the project and opposed to the Davies contract.



That's right the RCMP doesn't arrest people on the PM's orders. But that's not the issue here. The issue is the PM's office, the PM, the MND, the CDS and the Attorney General are accused of conspiring to ensure a favourable outcome for the gov't of a supposedly unbiased court case.

At this point nobody knows if Admiral Norman is guilty as charged but they know for sure that he's being screwed over because of this supposed solicitor client privilege that the former Attorney General uses when it conveniences her.

So let me break it down:

PM's office requests an investigation into the leak of information that is embarrassing the gov't;
RCMP investigate and claim it was Admiral Norman who was the leak;
RCMP arrest Admiral Norman on Breach of Trust charges'
The Crown acquires all evidence necessary to prepare for a court case;
The Star Chamber meets to "allegedly" plan a strategy that ensure Admiral Norman will be found guilty;
Scott Brison resigns (yes he was involved in the plan);
Admiral Normans defense team requests the evidence relating to that meeting and any other pertinent evidence;
The gov't stone walls for months and then, when they finally release any of the requested information it's so heavily redacted as to be useless.

Can you see the pattern here? The PMO's office tries interfering in the SNC Lavalin case, the PM is accused of interfering in the selection of the Supreme Court Justices and the PM and attorney General are accused of interfering in the justice system to ensure the favourable outcome of trials involving natives.

So sure, this group of individuals didn't interfere in the Admiral Norman case because that would be completely out of character for them. ROTFL

Now more about Scott Brison's part in the whole affair.

But this statement is the kicker.

Quote:
For example, the newly released documents say a copy of secret briefing materials on the ministers’ meeting were found on the computer of a lobbyist for Davie and had been sent by another civil servant days before the meeting – an apparent leak that hasn’t led to charges.

Davie officials also told the RCMP that they’d been alerted to the meeting by numerous sources before it happened, and had even been asked by federal officials whether they would be open to delaying the contract pending a review.


https://globalnews.ca/news/4694637/vice ... tt-brison/

Nope, nothing untoward being done by the gov't, right. If the gov't wasn't using Norman as a scapegoat these other "leaks" would have been investigated and the people responsible charged but nothing like that has happened. [huh]


Thank you for this, Freakin'. You nailed it.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 8:35 am
 


Freakinoldguy wrote:
BeaverFever wrote:
Freakinoldguy wrote:


Can you see the pattern here? The PMO's office tries interfering in the SNC Lavalin case,


AFAIK Norman’s defence lawyers only made the interference accusations after the SNC affair broke. That’s not a pattern.

Quote:
the PM is accused of interfering in the selection of the Supreme Court Justices
. No he’s not. The PM has sole authority to appoint Supreme Court Justices. The AG only recomends but the PM is not obligated to follow it. In this case, Raybould’s recommendation was not only to appoint her chosen candidate to the SC but to make this new member the Chief Justice of the SC, which is virtually unheard of in Canadian history. The role of SC Chief Justice has always been awarded to an already-sitting member of the SC for obvious reasons, except on one occasion, and that was 111 years ago, in 1908.

Interestingly enough JWRs choice candidate is vocally anti-Charter and thinks the charter takes too much power away from government so he would have actually made Trudeau MORE powerful.

Quote:
and the PM and attorney General are accused of interfering in the justice system to ensure the favourable outcome of trials involving natives.


FOR THE THIRD TIME: THAT IS A LIE. Don’t you guys even have the basic intellectual curiosity to google any your regurgitated claims to find out if there’s any truth to them?


As for Davie, it ultimately got the contract and then it also got another even bigger one for icebreakers didn’t it? Doesn’t sound like a conspiracy to me.


Of course Admiral Norman's defense requested all documents related to the investigation and the meeting of the Star Chamber about how to proceed with the case and who wouldn't? You have the PM being caught red handed trying to influence one court case so there's a very good chance he and others might have done the same in the Norman case especially since nobody but Norman was charged despite all the evidence that showed it could have been any number of people.

So, sure they requested the documents and evidence and guess what they got? A bunch of redacted evidence that's less than useful for a defense and do you know why it was redacted? Claims of solicitor client privilege. And do you know why that's a problem? Because JWR decided that the solicitor client privilege didn't apply when she went about torpedoing Trudeau but when it may sink her ship, it suddenly applies in spades.

Nobody said anyone is guilty of anything.....yet, because nobody has proven that Trudeau is guilty of what he's accused of with SNC Lavalin, the Norman Case, the Supreme Court or the justice system. What they do know is that he and his friends have been ACCUSED of doing those things and that's where the pattern comes in.

Also, this isn't about what Davie got or didn't get. It's about leaking gov't documents, not awarding contracts. It's about who leaked Scott Brison's decision to scrap the tanker contract and it's about a group of gov't officials meeting to find a way to ensure that the court case against the only person charged in the affair went the Gov'ts way which, if true might be considered interfering in the justice system and is at the least less than ethical behaviour.


R=UP R=UP


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 8:37 am
 


Freakinoldguy wrote:
Tricks wrote:
Freakinoldguy wrote:
Star Chamber
What's a star chamber?

Quote:
Claims of solicitor client privilege. And do you know why that's a problem? Because JWR decided that the solicitor client privilege didn't apply when she went about torpedoing Trudeau but when it may sink her ship, it suddenly applies in spades.
Wasn't she released of privilege regarding SNC by Trudeau?




The Star Chamber was originally an English court of law which sat at the royal Palace of Westminster, and was composed of Privy Councillors and common-law judges, used to supplement the judicial activities of the common-law and equity courts in civil and criminal matters. ,


But, in today's terms it more often refers to, legal or administrative bodies who issue strict, arbitrary rulings after secretive proceedings. It is also often used to cast doubt on the legitimacy or legality of the participants and what they're doing.

But, you're absolutely right. JWR was released from her obligations as a solicitor in the SNC Lavalin affair by her "client" the Canadian Gov't. A fact which is what makes their stance on releasing the requested information unredacted for Admiral Norman's defense team so baffling. They seem to be willing to hide information from those people and the public but have no problem when it comes to the SNC Lavalin affair?

The optics are extremely bad when they allow JWR to sink the Prime Minister but won't allow a man who's accused of a crime the information to defend himself and it makes it look like they're hell bent on hiding something.

Again......you nailed it, Freakin'


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