[DrCaleb]

BRAH BRAH:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Hmm, a government that wants to make children safer. We cannot possibly stand for that! Every 10 year old should have the right to drive a forklift, flip it and be killed in the process.

http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/boy-10-die ... -1.2669841

The way the NDP is doing this will kill the family farm as we know it.

I'm not saying their approach isn't wrong - I wouldn't inflict the WCB on any unsuspecting person. But their motivations are good.

They can't investigate that incident where 3 sisters died in the grain truck, because the laws don't allow it. If they can't investigate, they can't make recommendations on how to prevent future deaths. I know, that is an obvious case, but it's the principal. People know they shouldn't let their kids play in grain bins or trucks, but it happens every year and several times a year.

Without an investigation, how can we know whether the parents let them play around the grain, or whether the kids knew better and ignored advice? Knowing that, we'd know the best place to focus education - at the parents, or in the rural schools. I heard an interview just this morning with the Minister responsible, and that's all the government really wants - is the ability to set some standards on family farms, they don't want to kill the family farm.

[ccga3359]

Thanos Thanos:

How to put as many farms as possible out of business by forcing them to implement a corporate level safety program and ISO 9000 system? Sounds like something some bureaucrat thought up while he was rubbing one out.

Can't legislate common sense which does seem to be lacking in so many of these cases. A 10yo riving a forklift is just not common sense. A 10yo driving a forklift on a gravel road between ditches and not wearing the provided seatbelt thereby defeating any ROPS protection is criminal. 3 girls in the back of a moving truck filled with canola seed is criminal. yes children have to work on a farm but if the parents can't recognize the dangers hen maybe they need legislation to save some of these wasted lives and to hold farmers fully accountable.

[andyt]

It does seem that farmers get pretty lackadaisical with safety. Not just with children but with adults too. I guess growing up around all this equipment means it's not seen as a threat, and somehow the message from all the mishaps doesn't penetrate. (It can't happen here). That's why legislation is needed. But even with legislation, I saw the same thing in the logging industry, where production trumps safety. To the point that the accidents actually slow production more than being safe would. But look at the way people drive and all the accidents and deaths we have there. All sorts of rules and regs, yet as people say, if the airlines had the safety record of automobile travel, they'd be shut down.

[Delwin]

BRAH BRAH:

Delwin Delwin:

The way the NDP is doing this will kill the family farm as we know it.

And yet every other province already has similar legislation and family farms operate just fine. You obviously don't know the facts.

[martin14]

Thanos Thanos:

How to put as many farms as possible out of business by forcing them to implement a corporate level safety program and ISO 9000 system? Sounds like something some bureaucrat thought up while he was rubbing one out.

IBM asked me to do an ISO9000 certification program a number of years ago.

After I stopped laughing, and thought about the extra staff I would have to hire,
and the extra costs, I doubled my price to IBM, and demanded they triple the amount
of business I was doing with them.

It didn't end well.

[Thanos]

martin14 martin14:

Thanos Thanos:

How to put as many farms as possible out of business by forcing them to implement a corporate level safety program and ISO 9000 system? Sounds like something some bureaucrat thought up while he was rubbing one out.

IBM asked me to do an ISO9000 certification program a number of years ago.

After I stopped laughing, and thought about the extra staff I would have to hire,
and the extra costs, I doubled my price to IBM, and demanded they triple the amount
of business I was doing with them.

It didn't end well.

The first place I worked at after college had an ISO program. Someone had talked them into making their program so top-heavy and intense they were doing things like sending their $10 tape measures out for "calibration" twice a year that cost them $50 per calibration certificate. That was my first exposure to how corporations think and how the bureaucratic monster called Quality Assurance was wrecking everything. I should have run out the door as fast as I could at the stupidity of it all and gone back to working at a grocery store. I might still be sane today if I had.

[DrCaleb]

$1:

Bill 6 will pass, but Alberta government says it will be amended

Labour Minister Lori Sigurdson says the government will introduce an amendment to Bill 6 stating that farm and ranch safety rules will apply only to paid workers.

The amendment specifies that mandatory Workers Compensation Board coverage will only apply to workers earning a wage. As well, occupational health and safety rules will only apply to operations that employ one or more workers at any time of the year.

The minister claims the government always intended for family members to be exempt from the contentious farm safety law, but the exemption was to be written into regulations coming in 2017.

However, when the legislation was first introduced, ministry officials said occupational health and safety rules would apply to everyone — paid or unpaid.

Now it will be made explicit that they will only apply to paid workers.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/ ... -1.3345369

[BRAH]

Delwin Delwin:

BRAH BRAH:

Delwin Delwin:

The way the NDP is doing this will kill the family farm as we know it.

And yet every other province already has similar legislation and family farms operate just fine. You obviously don't know the facts.

I actually know the facts because my family is from farming the facts Derek Filderbrant made went way over your head, no shock there.

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

I'm not saying their approach isn't wrong - I wouldn't inflict the WCB on any unsuspecting person. But their motivations are good.

They can't investigate that incident where 3 sisters died in the grain truck, because the laws don't allow it. If they can't investigate, they can't make recommendations on how to prevent future deaths. I know, that is an obvious case, but it's the principal. People know they shouldn't let their kids play in grain bins or trucks, but it happens every year and several times a year.

Without an investigation, how can we know whether the parents let them play around the grain, or whether the kids knew better and ignored advice? Knowing that, we'd know the best place to focus education - at the parents, or in the rural schools. I heard an interview just this morning with the Minister responsible, and that's all the government really wants - is the ability to set some standards on family farms, they don't want to kill the family farm.

Families in Alberta who's lively hood is farming would disagree with your NDP talking points.

[DrCaleb]

BRAH BRAH:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

I'm not saying their approach isn't wrong - I wouldn't inflict the WCB on any unsuspecting person. But their motivations are good.

They can't investigate that incident where 3 sisters died in the grain truck, because the laws don't allow it. If they can't investigate, they can't make recommendations on how to prevent future deaths. I know, that is an obvious case, but it's the principal. People know they shouldn't let their kids play in grain bins or trucks, but it happens every year and several times a year.

Without an investigation, how can we know whether the parents let them play around the grain, or whether the kids knew better and ignored advice? Knowing that, we'd know the best place to focus education - at the parents, or in the rural schools. I heard an interview just this morning with the Minister responsible, and that's all the government really wants - is the ability to set some standards on family farms, they don't want to kill the family farm.

Families in Alberta who's lively hood is farming would disagree with your NDP talking points.

No one who understands work place safety would. And work place safety has been around longer than your anti-NDP stance has.

[herbie]

Well in BC its been a decade since we heard of any bald-tired van rolling over on the freeway with 17 workers, all relatives, sitting on apple boxes while riding with the farmer's wife who "didn't know" she needed a driver's license.
Or poison filled compost buildings where immigrant workers just kept going in one after another to see why the last guy didn't come back.

[BRAH]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

BRAH BRAH:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

I'm not saying their approach isn't wrong - I wouldn't inflict the WCB on any unsuspecting person. But their motivations are good.

They can't investigate that incident where 3 sisters died in the grain truck, because the laws don't allow it. If they can't investigate, they can't make recommendations on how to prevent future deaths. I know, that is an obvious case, but it's the principal. People know they shouldn't let their kids play in grain bins or trucks, but it happens every year and several times a year.

Without an investigation, how can we know whether the parents let them play around the grain, or whether the kids knew better and ignored advice? Knowing that, we'd know the best place to focus education - at the parents, or in the rural schools. I heard an interview just this morning with the Minister responsible, and that's all the government really wants - is the ability to set some standards on family farms, they don't want to kill the family farm.

Families in Alberta who's lively hood is farming would disagree with your NDP talking points.

No one who understands work place safety would. And work place safety has been around longer than your anti-NDP stance has.

I understand work place safety and how it works so don't assume. It's the NDP and their lapdogs who don't understand shite especially when it comes to how a farm operates because Derek Fildrebrant said best, those idiots have never been on a farm.

[Unsound]

I'm honestly quite torn on this one. Might help if I could find reporting on it that wasn't completely partisan ine way or the other.

Certainly would lime to know if the standards will be applied differently depending on the size of the operation. Giant corporate farming operations certainly should have to meet the same standards as other industries, but it's completely impractical to expect a family farm with one hires hand and the occasional helpful neihhbour to able to implement a full on safety program. I'm currently working on updating procedures at mt company and it's pretty much full time work for 2 of us. Plus others helping out as they can. Even when everything is in place every company ive worked for needs a dedicated employee to maintain the program.

[DrCaleb]

BRAH BRAH:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

No one who understands work place safety would. And work place safety has been around longer than your anti-NDP stance has.

I understand work place safety and how it works so don't assume. It's the NDP and their lapdogs who don't understand shite especially when it comes to how a farm operates because Derek Fildrebrant said best, those idiots have never been on a farm.

I didn't make any assumptions, other than you seem to dislike whatever the NDP propose to do, for whatever reasons they propose to do it.

If you understand work site safety, then please tell me how anything I said would not improve safety on a family farm.

Why do you have to grow up on, or have run a family farm in order to understand how to make one safer?

[DrCaleb]

Unsound Unsound:

Even when everything is in place every company ive worked for needs a dedicated employee to maintain the program.

Good luck finding non partisan stories about Alberta now! Good old Ezra is cranking them out as fast as he can make them up!

Place I worked also had two people for safety; one for training people on using heavy equipment, and one to maintain logs required by Transport Canada of all the trucks used to move around all that equipment.

[BRAH]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

BRAH BRAH:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

No one who understands work place safety would. And work place safety has been around longer than your anti-NDP stance has.

I understand work place safety and how it works so don't assume. It's the NDP and their lapdogs who don't understand shite especially when it comes to how a farm operates because Derek Fildrebrant said best, those idiots have never been on a farm.

I didn't make any assumptions, other than you seem to dislike whatever the NDP propose to do, for whatever reasons they propose to do it.

If you understand work site safety, then please tell me how anything I said would not improve safety on a family farm.

Why do you have to grow up on, or have run a family farm in order to understand how to make one safer?

No one is saying there can't be safety issues looked at but you don't need the NDP Government to make it happen and the way they're doing it is wrong. Derek Filderbrant makes valid points.