[Elvis]

OldChum wrote:

If you look around, very few advancements come from outside the US these days,
partially because companies in the US can make money from it, and partially because
goverment cannot fund such things because they are too busy paying for
everyone's health care.

Yes and the drugs we pay such unreal prices for, pay for all that so called research. And alot of the drugs come from all over the world .

Bull shit

I don't believe a word of that! Every major pharma company in Europe and in Canada are making a shit load of money, The difference is that in the US they make an Unholy amount of money.

Sorry but that just rhetoric that has been repeated over over again and that nobody never bother to challenge.

[andyt]

Elvis wrote:

Sorry but that just rhetoric that has been repeated over over again and that nobody never bother to challenge.

Hey, I challenge you on that - I said much the same thing a few posts back. I guess the neo-con trickle down ideas are easy to grasp, no complexity required, it's all just black and white. But for most people, that trickle you're feeling ain't green, it's yellow.

[Mr_Canada]

If I had to choose who I'd rather trust, Government or Corporation... The Government has my vote. Even a Conservative government gets more trust from me then even the company I work for.

When government steals money, it's a scandal and they get ousted and shamed for DECADES.

When a corporation causes death, profits from war, robs the sick and poor, and takes massive amounts of money in bonuses just for greed, it's shrugged off and gets called "business".

Sorry. I think government is transparent enough, I have ZERO fears of any sort of Fascist movement in Canada or Harper significantly harming this nation in the way that companies do every single day. I think any rule for government should apply for corporation. They are miniature undemocratic movements. No rules, because you believe in "Economic Freedom". Of course, all this fighting so corporations can get even MORE rights then any human being could dream of has made me no more trustful of the Corporate Market then the Black Market.

I honestly do not understand how you can sign the papers that take away your rights, life, and money.

At least taxation doesn't make me any less of a person.

[andyt]

Mr_Canada wrote:

If I had to choose who I'd rather trust, Government or Corporation... The Government has my vote. Even a Conservative government gets more trust from me then even the company I work for.

When government steals money, it's a scandal and they get ousted and shamed for DECADES.

When a corporation causes death, profits from war, robs the sick and poor, and takes massive amounts of money in bonuses just for greed, it's shrugged off and gets called "business".

Sorry. I think government is transparent enough, I have ZERO fears of any sort of Fascist movement in Canada or Harper significantly harming this nation in the way that companies do every single day. I think any rule for government should apply for corporation. They are miniature undemocratic movements. No rules, because you believe in "Economic Freedom". Of course, all this fighting so corporations can get even MORE rights then any human being could dream of has made me no more trustful of the Corporate Market then the Black Market.

I honestly do not understand how you can sign the papers that take away your rights, life, and money.

At least taxation doesn't make me any less of a person.

Good point - at least with the govt we get a vote. But, I wouldn't be all that sanguine about Harper - his whole thing is about how Canada is a socialist nation, and he wants to have less govt - eg prorogation. The Reformacons talk about good game about being for the individual, but they're really just dupes for the corporations - everything that's privatized hands more power to some big corp. We need somebody who seeks balance. Take for instance Wacky Bennett in BC. He was a shopkeeper, pretty big on the idea that you don't work, you don't eat. Socreds have certainly never been accused of being commies. But, when it made sense, he privatized BC Hydro and BC rail, because if you're going to have a monopoly, it's better to have the govt run it, get the benefits to all the people. He wasn't perfect, and his son was (is) a crook, but we need people like that to run things again - he did a lot of good for BC.

[Mr_Canada]

The only argument I've seen here is that one side believes that progress happens when Corporations are allowed to be devastatingly and disgustingly immoral.

Corporations give YOU no right. YOU have no vote in a corporation. That means corporations are basically Fascist, ruling over the masses and taking everything for themselves.

The idea that Quasi-Anarcho-Capitalism works BETTER is DISGUSTING.

"Fascism makes the trains run on time" to some people.

So willing to let others die just so you can avoid the "mean" and "evil" government boogie-man! Ooooo!

[Mr_Canada]

andyt wrote:

Mr_Canada wrote:

If I had to choose who I'd rather trust, Government or Corporation... The Government has my vote. Even a Conservative government gets more trust from me then even the company I work for.

When government steals money, it's a scandal and they get ousted and shamed for DECADES.

When a corporation causes death, profits from war, robs the sick and poor, and takes massive amounts of money in bonuses just for greed, it's shrugged off and gets called "business".

Sorry. I think government is transparent enough, I have ZERO fears of any sort of Fascist movement in Canada or Harper significantly harming this nation in the way that companies do every single day. I think any rule for government should apply for corporation. They are miniature undemocratic movements. No rules, because you believe in "Economic Freedom". Of course, all this fighting so corporations can get even MORE rights then any human being could dream of has made me no more trustful of the Corporate Market then the Black Market.

I honestly do not understand how you can sign the papers that take away your rights, life, and money.

At least taxation doesn't make me any less of a person.

Good point - at least with the govt we get a vote. But, I wouldn't be all that sanguine about Harper - his whole thing is about how Canada is a socialist nation, and he wants to have less govt - eg prorogation. The Reformacons talk about good game about being for the individual, but they're really just dupes for the corporations - everything that's privatized hands more power to some big corp. We need somebody who seeks balance. Take for instance Wacky Bennett in BC. He was a shopkeeper, pretty big on the idea that you don't work, you don't eat. Socreds have certainly never been accused of being commies. But, when it made sense, he privatized BC Hydro and BC rail, because if you're going to have a monopoly, it's better to have the govt run it, get the benefits to all the people. He wasn't perfect, and his son was (is) a crook, but we need people like that to run things again - he did a lot of good for BC.

Don't worry, I agree.

I'm just saying it's better then if a corporation were running things.

[Lemmy]

Political parties. The answer to the thread question is that democracy is a system of great compromise. Forming political political parties was the first step on the slippery slope to where our polticial system is currently. Instead of having government that represents our several common interests, it becomes a favour-market resembling a Persian bazaar. Our several common interests become a myriad of interests common to few. People vote against their interests because every vote is a vote for many things. You just hope the party you give your vote to will support more of your interests than the other parties.

Unless there's a way to run a democracy without political parties, the voters have no choice but to vote for many things not in their interests.

[fifeboy]

martin14 wrote:

Maybe you could start with banging your head looking for
any significant medical breakthroughs in your 'socialized' paradise.

But then remember when you find one of those, you'll find ten
the same or better in the USA.

All of the "medical breakthroughs" but few of the results. If the presence of medical breakthroughs and their availability to the population were of any significance, the U.S. would have the highest scores on health indicators. Let me know what ya find.

[Thanos]

Lemmy wrote:

Political parties. The answer to the thread question is that democracy is a system of great compromise. Forming political political parties was the first step on the slippery slope to where our polticial system is currently. Instead of having government that represents our several common interests, it becomes a favour-market resembling a Persian bazaar. Our several common interests become a myriad of interests common to few. People vote against their interests because every vote is a vote for many things. You just hope the party you give your vote to will support more of your interests than the other parties.

Unless there's a way to run a democracy without political parties, the voters have no choice but to vote for many things not in their interests.

The problem then becomes that representative government grinds to a shuddering halt when the spirit of compromise is killed by ideologues (e.g., the current crop of hard right Republicans and crypto-Tea Baggers hiding under the Republican label). And the ideology behind this is a movement designed to be the figurative destroyer of the Obama Administration.

Awesome way to over-ride the results of an election, if one has the balls, the nerve, and the prerequsite amount of pure hatred for the internal "enemy" needed to pull such a plan off. It's too early in the game to know if they've succeeded, but by the way they and their 24-hour propaganda network congratualte themselves about they sure think that they have.

[andyt]

I think the Teabaggers just represent the last shudders of the white majority in the US as it fades away. Guess we'll have our version in Canada as well.

[Mr_Canada]

andyt wrote:

I think the Teabaggers just represent the last shudders of the white majority in the US as it fades away. Guess we'll have our version in Canada as well.

And then at last, we can sit back and relax. When it happens here, it won't be as bad, because as always, we'll learn by watching America fail first.

[Thanos]

Canada doesn't have the same rabid hyper-religiosity and overused anti-government founding myths that the Americans do. As such, despite all the boring demonization of Stephen Harper and the Conservatives that inexplicably keeps going on, the TeaBagger dynamic is highly unlikely to ever repeat itself here. Some very reasonable anti-tax and devolved government sentiments, yes, but full-blown anti-government mania? Never.

[Mr_Canada]

Canada's main exports are hockey players, snow, and a ton of apathy.

[romanP]

Mr_Canada wrote:

The only argument I've seen here is that one side believes that progress happens when Corporations are allowed to be devastatingly and disgustingly immoral.

Corporations give YOU no right. YOU have no vote in a corporation. That means corporations are basically Fascist, ruling over the masses and taking everything for themselves.

The idea that Quasi-Anarcho-Capitalism works BETTER is DISGUSTING.

"Fascism makes the trains run on time" to some people.

So willing to let others die just so you can avoid the "mean" and "evil" government boogie-man! Ooooo!

And, even so, it's not avoiding government, it's just replacing it with one that represents no one but those rich enough to own part of it.