[Brenda]

BartSimpson wrote:

Brenda wrote:

Abortion and immigration have nothing to do with each other.

Except that they do.

Here's a source that is fairly neutral:

http://geography.about.com/od/obtainpop ... siapop.htm

Quote:

The primary causes of Russia's population decrease and loss of about 700,000 to 800,000 citizens each year are a high death rate, low birth rate, high rate of abortions, and a low level of immigration.

The same dynamic applies to other countries, as well, but with Canada, the USA, and Western Europe we're offsetting the decline in births with immigration. The Russians, being classic xenophobes, don't even want the children of Russian emigres to return to Russia.

Western families do not consist of 13 children anymore, but I doubt that is because of abortion.
(Russia, really? ?)

Quote:

Brenda wrote:

You cannot have 13, 14, 15 year old children have children, or just have women pooping out children that end up in foster care because they cannot take care of theirs.

Nope, that's not what I said, but feel free to jump to conclusions. We almost need a forum medal for that category and, trust me, I'd be happy to vote for you getting it, too.

Then what DID you say?
You said "hey, if you get pregnant, you better take care of it, because I ain't paying for your abortion". Which means for a lot of people, they would have to carry their babies full term, and give it up for adoption or have them put into foster care because they are just lousy parents. I'm sorry, but I would like to save children from living a life like that.

Quote:

Brenda wrote:

Birth control is not free of charge either, you know that, right?

For some people it is. That applies to Canada, the USA, and most of Europe (save for Poland).

SOME. Not all. Not for me. I co-paid for my pill in The Netherlands, AND for my IUD. Unless you are on welfare, you co-pay. I also co-paid for my IUD here in Canada, jfyi...

[Gunnair]

BartSimpson wrote:

Gunnair wrote:

Thank you, Dear Leader. Enforced child rearing and farm cultivation of native born children will defitely increase our population without having to bring those nasty Northern Europeans in.

Like I said, the option is politically charged, as you have so adroitly illustrated.

Now, where did I say such a program should be enforced? Hmmm? I'm all for encouraging a higher birth rate but where on God's green earth do you get off accusing me of wanting to force such a thing? I said no such thing of the kind.

I'd also oppose it.

But encouraging couples to have kids with tax credits, housing credits, and etc. would be perfectly acceptable ansd that's what I have in mind.

Naa, you're right, I apologize, you didn't say that. That was me knee jerking against you're not so subtle and amazingly arrogant swipe that somehow bringing in non-native born Canadians (Muslims for example) instead of native born Canadians pumping out babies will somehow lessen what is Canada.



Apparently two wrongs didn't make a right.

[Brenda]

BartSimpson wrote:

But encouraging couples to have kids with tax credits, housing credits, and etc. would be perfectly acceptable ansd that's what I have in mind.

Btw, that I agree with.
But, abortion (imo only early abortion btw) should still be an option. And yes, I would gladly pay into that, just as I would gladly pay into tax credits, housing credits, subsidized sports for children and FREE healthcare for children under 18, including dental care and vision care.

[BartSimpson]

Brenda, I'd reverse the situation that is currently in existence and that you have complained about here.

I'd make people pay for their own abortions *but* I'd take the money that's currently spent on abortions and devote it to reducing the cost of birth control with the intent of making it free for as many people as money will provide for (a budget neutral solution). By doing so the folks who don't want kids would be able to avoid doing so and then the remainder, well, they'd be well placed to take advantage of all of those family incentives I'd like to see in place.

Or they'd be free to pay for their own abortion.

Seriously, if birth control is made more widely available then we can reduce health care costs by encouraging people to use it instead of opting for the far more expensive abortion procedure. Likewise, you also encourage birth control by making abortion actually cost something.