[Diogenes]

<strong>Written By:</strong> Diogenes
<strong>Date:</strong> 2006-07-18 08:42:00
<a href="/article/14248926-defence-lawyer-says-use-of-mole-shows-theres-quotno-terrorism-in-canadaquot">Article Link</a>

"I've seen some other disgusting so-called terrorist cases, but the stench of this one is starting to exude even before we get into court."

Shaikh, a prominent member of Toronto's Muslim community, identified himself on Thursday to several media outlets as a paid police informant who was ordered to place himself in the group.

Shaikh said he was concerned about the impact of their plot on all Canadians and on the country's Muslim community.

The RCMP refused to comment Friday on Shaikh's statements or his role in the investigation.

<a href="http://www.lookingglassnews.org/viewstory.php?storyid=6690">http://www.lookingglassnews.org/viewstory.php?storyid=6690</a>








[Proofreader's note: this article was edited for spelling and typos on July 19, 2006]

[Jeff]

Yeah, I guess because there was a paid informant involved there *must* be no terrorism in Canada, right Rocco?

Of course, by that logic, there is also no mafia or drug kingpins either.

[In best Dr. Evil voice] Riiiiiiiiiiight.

Liar, lawyer, mirror for ya, what’s the difference?

[Diogenes]

Great spin Jeff.<br />
here's another for you <br />
<br />
<br />
"The Bar, the pulpit and the press nafariously combine to cry up a storm and strike it Right Devine" unattributed quote<br />
<br />
<br />
Want some about the Cocaine Importing Agency CIA as well<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucky_Luciano">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucky_Luciano</a><br />
World War II, freedom, and deportation<br />
<br />
During WWII the U.S. government is reported to have covertly made a deal with Luciano, who was by then imprisoned. U.S. military intelligence was aware Luciano had maintained good connections in the Sicilian and Italian Mafia, which had been severely persecuted under Mussolini in Italy. Luciano was an American devoted to Sicily, the Mafia, and the USA alike. His help was sought in providing Mafia assistance to counter possible Axis infiltration on U.S. waterfronts, and his connections in Italy and Sicily were tapped to furnish intelligence and ensure an easy passage for U.S. forces as they moved up through the Italian peninsula. Both during and after the war, the U.S. military and intelligence agencies reputedly also used Luciano's Mafia connections to root out Communist influence in resistance groups and local governments.<br />
<br />
In return for his cooperation, it is claimed that Luciano was permitted to run his crime empire unhindered from his jail cell, and that during the 1940s, he used to meet US military men during train trips throughout Italy, and he enjoyed being recognized by his countrymen, several times taking photos and even signing autographs for them.<br />
<br />
In 1946, as part of the payoff for his cooperation, he was paroled on the condition that he leave the United States and return to Italy. He accepted the deal, although he had maintained during his trial that he was a native of New York City and was therefore not subject to deportation, but was deeply hurt about having to leave the USA, a country he had considered his own ever since his arrival at age ten.<br />
<br />
The point being <br />
the defence may be on solid ground<br />
in other words false dichotomy , Bro. or some such logical gaff<p>---<br>The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing.... : Albert Einstein

[Jeff]

WTF does that shit have to do with anything? I could care less about Sicilian crime families in the 50’s. Seriously Diogenes.

I wasn’t spinning shit. His logic is laughable. I’m using *his words*. And laughing at them. He is doing his job - fine, but his logic is painfully flawed, as I’ve demonstrated.

Hey, maybe the defence *is* right, and the mole was more than a just an informant – we don’t know – but his quote was a still faulty turd. Period. No links to crap from the 50’s is gonna change that. You might just as well link me a laughable rant by someone who spends their life obsessing about BusHitler and being lame enough to go on and on (and on, for Christsake) about it like the clearly (but kinda comically) disturbed Edgar J. Steele. He shouldn’t have called that “RIP America”, but “RIP my Sanity”. I’ve got fifty bucks that says that dude strokes out by year end. Any takers?

[Diogenes]

Yup, Uh Huh, what ever you say

I'm sure if you re read your rebuttal you will find more than one logical fallacy there too.

Faulty logic cannot be successfully countered with faulty logic.

That you are unable to see the connections in my previous post is as much a testiment to your lack of comprehension as it is to my weak framing.

By extending your argument via non seguitors weakens what ever point you are trying to make
Hence my rebutal you are not able to comprehend
Capice?

---
The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing.... : Albert Einstein

[Deacon]

Jeff, you still have that amazing ability to buy into everything the government says as though it were Holy Writ fron on high.

Here's a reality check for you: governments have been using set-up patsies/fall guys to further their agendas since the dawn of time.

Nero used the Christians as his for the burning of Rome.

Hitler used a communist as his for the Reichstag fire.

Bush used "islamic extremists" to attempt to set up his neo-fascist corporate state.

Is it any great surprise that our fearless Prime Minister should emulate his hero?

Wake up and smell the coffee dude.


---
"and the knowledge they fear is a weapon to be used against them"

"The Weapon" - Rush

[Frank_]

The fact that most of the officers had to sign the Official Secrets Act (something that even the USA doesn't have) that the RCMP delivered the fertilizer, the fact that there has been a publication ban just in time when the evidence started to fall appart, the fact that the citizens near this 'training camp' called the police WAY before these guys got dangerous and were told to shut up, the fact that even the informant (Mubin Shaikh) is a guy that promotes Jihad and at the same infiltrates 'radicals' cells, tell us that the whole thing has been cooked up.

[Jeff]

Yawn. Whatever.

[Jeff]

I guess we’ll see, Frank.

[Jeff]

Re: “Jeff, you still have that amazing ability to buy into everything the government says as though it were Holy Writ fron on high.”

Thanks! (kidding)

Re: “Here's a reality check for you: governments have been using set-up patsies/fall guys to further their agendas since the dawn of time”

Yup. All the time? Nope. Sometimes? Yup. This time? We don’t know yet.

Mostly, my post above was railing against Rocco. See, lawyers are generally scum, IMHO. They have an agenda. Rocco has an agenda. Hence his lame quip, which is laughable. I won’t dismiss the possibility that 17 men wanted me and my fellow Torontonians/Canadians dead. That’s a very real possibility, because radical Islam is a very real entity. Is it the case in this instance? Dunno. But I won’t simply dismiss the possibility, as all of you seem so eager to do, citing cases from the 50’s like I care. Just because I’m not jumping to the conclusion that this was all a set-up doesn’t mean I’m riding Harpers jock, OK?

[Marcarc]

Clearly people are unaware of what 'logic' means in the first place. Ideas about lawyers in general is irrelevant, this ones sentences, since they seem so misunderstood, were:

"The police didn't have a case against the accused, so they relied on an informant to "set everything up," "They have to fabricate it," Galati said, re-acting to Shaikh's claim he befriended the group's alleged ringleader, Fahim Ahmad, last October.

"I've seen some other disgusting so-called terrorist cases, but the stench of this one is starting to exude even before we get into court."


There is nothing in those sentences that is 'illogical'. If you don't agree with them, fine, nobody cares. They are perfectly logical, and of course the irony of the statement "we'll see" is that with our current charter we WONT see, because the government is free to keep everything to itself.

It is VERY possible that somebody could be trying to blow up Torontonians, they might also be Jamaican, or French, or the Maritime Liberation Party, who knows. When the government keeps everything in secret, then there is no way to know what to believe, hence people fall back on familiar bugaboos, usually the ones that see the most airplay.

For those of us who actually want to know what is going on, the problem is the government. Exactly how easy was it to 'lead' these guys, to what extent were they even willing to do ANYTHING. Were they simply following the informant, or were they quite keen and eager to dust off people on the subway.

THOSE are the only important questions, and this lawyer is no more equipped to say that 'there is no terrorism in Canada' than you or I. He simply doesn't know, its not like they have a website. However, the RCMP has a long history of actively setting up entire activities for neo-nazi's, white supremacists, even drug deals when it suits the political purpose. So when the trial is held in secret, there is cause to be alarmed. This lawyer clearly has some experience in the field, so its quite right that he should at least be listened to, rather than couch potatoes who get their news from the Aspers or Bell Canada.



PS Logically, the sentence can easily be amended to say that "because terrorism has not occurred that proves there is no terrorism in Canada". Terrorism is an act, not a plan or series of blueprints. Until actual terrorist acts occur, obviously there is no terrorism. There may be terrorists plotting, but that's not terrorism.

If you've been coming to this website awhile you are familiar with some very active terrorism-namely by the police and courts. Far more people have been terrorized by our own government than have ever been by 'islamic radicals', that would remain true even after a terrorist attack.

[Jeff]

Let’s look at the title:

“Defence lawyer says use of mole shows there's ‘no terrorism in Canada’”

"Jeff says use of a shovel shows there's no worms in backyard".

That doesn’t make sense. You acknowledge as much when you state that “this lawyer is no more equipped to say that there ‘is no terrorism’ than you or I”

Exactly - but it doesn’t stop him. His reasoning? Again, the flawed statement (which you excluded from your post above and which set me off in the first place) that “Mubin Shaikh's apparent involvement in a police operation that resulted in 17 men and youth charged last month shows there is ‘no terrorism in Canada’ said lawyer Rocco Galati”

Re: “Until actual terrorist acts occur…”

Flight 182.

Re: “If you’ve been coming to this website…”

I’ve been here a few months now and realize that I’m in the very distinct minority. That’s fine with me. I come for the whine, but I stay for the cheese.

[Diogenes]

I had ya pegged as a whatever kinda guy by your BS logical fallacy retort



---
The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing.... : Albert Einstein

[Diogenes]

All you , will "see" is what is presented to "see"



---
The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing.... : Albert Einstein

[Diogenes]

Yup. All the time? Nope. Sometimes? Yup. This time? We don&#8217;t know yet."
And yet your inablity to know doesn't hamper you from drawing conculions on what you don't know.
"Whatever" that.

---
The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing.... : Albert Einstein