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PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2006 10:49 am
 


<strong>Written By:</strong> Action-Jackson
<strong>Date:</strong> 2006-05-30 10:49:00
<a href="/article/34921582-eu-blocks-data-transfer-to-us">Article Link</a>

The Luxembourg court said there was no legal basis for the EU decision to declare US data protection "adequate". <p> <a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/5028918.stm">BBC Article</a>. </p>



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PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2006 1:08 pm
 


I pity European tourists this summer.

If they elect to refuse to give their information to the airline, (which is within their rights), the aircraft will likely still be admitted to US air space - particularly if there are US passengers on it. But they would have to endure long interrogations on arrival.

I guess tourists could elect to fly to Canada and cross into the US by road or rail (or even by plane from Canada) - or are Canadian airlines also sililarly obligated to give the data to the US?

Maybe this issue will end up in the court in The Hague.



Jacob


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PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2006 1:58 pm
 


The US may just stop allowing European flights with anyone that does not comply and will coerce US airlines to provide the information anyway. The alternative is for the airlines to fly into Canada, and then fly into the US since we do provide the information, even on stopover flights. In transit info services... might be another value add service we can charge for in addition to the airport fees and anything else we can tack on to the flight! The additional flights may make transatlantic availability better for us as well (if the returns follow the same path anyway). I do so love capitalism!

I don't know what basis the EU can deny the info from the US though... If the US wants this info they have the right to lock out anyone who doesn't comply from their airspace (just like they can fingerprint people coming in, and demand a passport). The Euro's are picking the wrong fight.


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PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2006 2:01 pm
 


or are Canadian airlines also sililarly obligated to give the data to the US?<<

They do as fact. I don't know if they are obligated but there is a story: A man flying from Vancouver Island to his mothers funeral in Toronto was not allowed to fly. His name was on "the list". He had to contact American authorities in Richmond,VA to convience them his name was similar to the one they black-listed. He was able to fly at a later date and obviously missed the funeral. This happened about one year ago. The local paper that had the story, hasn't archives on the net. I'm sure other stories are. One has to ask our own National airlines why people flying in our own country is subject to American scrutiny.


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PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2006 2:03 pm
 


I pity European tourists this summer<

For not going to the land of the free or for going??

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PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2006 2:11 pm
 


They submit to the US because the planes fly over American airspace. So long as our planes fly over the US, and use sovereign airspace despite not landing there, the US is entitled to ask for anything they want.


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PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2006 4:35 pm
 


"If the US wants this info they have the right to lock out anyone who doesn't comply from their airspace (just like they can fingerprint people coming in, and demand a passport). The Euro's are picking the wrong fight."

I beg to differ.

The Euros have this one in the bag provided they want it.

The US has many military bases in Europe, and many Europeans would love to see these bases shut down and the Americans go home. Bet on public support for this being extremely high, especially given the US current popularity with people unhappy with the US invasion of Iraq.

Once some government or another establishes linkage between things being as they are currently, or else telling the US to close down it bases and go home with egg on its face, which do you think the US will go for?

And I seriously doubt that any US threats against Europe would amount to anything more than a brain dead chimp beating it's chest in futile, impotent frustration..



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PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2006 4:40 pm
 


I've never flow to TO from Vancouver Island so hadn't realized they went south rather then east across Canada. In actuality the plane would have had to fly to Vancouver then to TO.

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PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2006 6:02 pm
 


I think the point of the judges rule has been missed. He is not saying the information passed, shouldn't be, but the safety of the information is not guaranteed. There is no commitment by the USA that the passanger lists would not become public. He did not dispute the information being sent, but the airlines sending it without the guarantee. The US could try to convince the judge they wouldn't use the information for anything else. I guess that depends on how stupid either party is.

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PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2006 9:03 am
 


"telling the US to close down it bases and go home with egg on its face, which do you think the US will go for?"

The US will shut down it's bases then. With pleasure an gusto. They have been actively shutting them down for several years now throughout Europe - this is what they want since they only need a few for strategic reasons. They moved virtually all of them out of Germany except for Bagram. The Germans squealed like stuck pigs when the moves were made. The economies of several cities were wrecked due to the lack of jobs... which lead in part to the mighty anti-yank Schroeder getting tossed on his @ss with the last election and pro American Merkel squeaking out a slight victory. A few more bases move, maybe it would have been a sizable majority.

The only "brain dead chimp beating it's chest in futile, impotent frustration" was the pathetic lefties who watched themselves lose that election. So keep it up. Piss all over the American flag boys and girls. Just be careful what you wish for, because you just might get it. At which point you'll just bitch and moan about that anyway.


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PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2006 12:37 pm
 


They do go East. And South. Toronto isn't just East of Vancouver... you end up passing over North Dakota, Minnessota, Wisconsin and Michigan. If the planes followed the border, they would have to hang a sharp right somewhere up by Wawa (if you were coming from Van to TO). Add about a half hour on travel time and the respective fuel costs...

Easier just to send the Americans what they want and keep the flights cheap.

An idea for you committed lefties would be to start your own domestic airline that never hands over docs to the US, because you don't fly over the US. You could test Canadian's distaste for providing the info against their distaste in spending more money. Although this is a capitalistic idea, it would be an excellent method to test the validity of your belief that Canadians vehemently oppose this intrusion into our lives.


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PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2006 12:50 pm
 


"this is what they want since they only need a few for strategic reasons."

And those bases would be immune to being closed by what magic exactly?

And since when is opposing US imperialism the mark of a leftist?

Seems to me that for the last 100+ years it's been the mark of someone who loves their country.

One would think that Americans of all people could understand that, yes?

Your sad devotion to Bushism is just another sign of how gullible a lot of so called conservatives really are.



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PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2006 2:56 pm
 


"And those bases would be immune to being closed by what magic exactly?"

The US can close every European base down and it wouldn't make a dent in their strategic aims. European bases were for Russia, and so long as they have bases in Afghanistan and Iraq, they have their oil covered.

"Your sad devotion to Bushism is just another sign of how gullible a lot of so called conservatives really are."

I might be pro-American, but I am far from pro-Bush. The man has screwed up royally. Iraq is a farce (and I'll be the first to say that I did by into the lies they put down about WMD... live and learn). The US trade deficit will lead to economic stagnation and dominance by the Chinese. The budget deficit is an equally appalling economic blight on the Bush record. His immigration stance (or is that dance) is a joke. His bagmen (Rumsfeld, Cheney, Rowe) are a pack of liars and egomaniacs. His policies from NSA wiretaps to Guantanamo Bay are poorly developed and poorly explained and in some cases quite possibly criminal.

But my distaste for his administration does not diminish my appreciation and admiration of the US as one of the greatest nations on earth. And that appreciation does not in any way reduce my patriotism for Canada and steadfastness in her sovereignty.

"And since when is opposing US imperialism the mark of a leftist?"

You deny being left on the political spectrum? You actually try to define yourself as centerist perhaps? Good on you. Jack Layton tries the same thing. We can see through him too. Which is why he gets oh so many votes at election time.


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PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2006 4:35 pm
 


"I might be pro-American, but I am far from pro-Bush. The man has screwed up royally. Iraq is a farce (and I'll be the first to say that I did by into the lies they put down about WMD... live and learn)."

EXCELLENT!
A sincere
congratulations to you!


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PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2006 4:46 pm
 


Now Michael, if the US has the right to ban people flying over their territory in passenger planes, without landing, should we have the right to ask what the hell the daily, several B52 flights are doing over our heads, here in Central BC.

We've been watching them for over 30 years, since we're here, and the number of their flights has increased lately in both North-South and East-West directions. Are they still flying the proverbial "fail safe" idiocy, or training to attack yet another country and kill more thousands of civilians?

Do we have the right to know what these 40 year old flying heaps of junk carry? How about daily H bombs over our heads and the terrorists who fly them on their murder missions? Are their actions and plans excusable any more than those of Al Queda, just because they wear officer uniforms and goddamn medals for killing kids ?

Incidentally, at one time I was a volunteer in an army, volunteer in a rearguard battalion, wounded when on a volunteer attack patrol, but later also, technically, a draft dodger from both the Red and US Armies, yet have a 45 year record of fighting communism and other criminal ideologies.

Lying in bed for 3 months with a legwound gave me a lot of time to think and decide that no politician, or officer, will ever again send me to kill others, or be killed. So I've been fighting on my own, by my own free will, based on hard lessons in history and logic, having discarded all ideologies. As I'm fighting the other collectivizer criminal monster now,fraudulently called "free enterprise market capitalism".

So, what does this make me, left, or right wing ? How do you clever, cliche mongering people make the difference ? Could you imagine a world where people are distinguished by their actions and whether they can think independently, or follow screwball ideologies ? What would you do if you couldn't hang labels on people, but would have to listen to what they say before starting to shout "infidel" ?

Now I have to go and do some useful work.

Ed Deak.


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