[Newsbot]

Title: Greens Excluded from Debate
Topic: Democracy
Written By: Rural
Date:
The Consortium approached the parties to explore the possibility of
including the Green Party in all or part of the Leaders' Debates. However,
three parties opposed its inclusion and it became clear that if the Green
Party were included, there would be no Leaders' Debates. In the interest of
Canadians, the Consortium has determined that it is better to broadcast the
debates with the four major party leaders, rather than not at all.
 
If you are not outraged by this you do not support democracy, it seems neither do at least 3 of the partys within parliment do not! I expected this of the Harper ologarcy, but the others?
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[Dave Ruston]

Actually, the majority of Canadians are excluded from the debate. Not that the puppets will actually talk about any issues that matter.

[coyoteman]

Hear, hear, David Ruston.

See the discussion below at Action Needed Now. But still, this exclusion of the Greens is an attempt to paper over the growing fragmentation of the ruling class dominated and controlled political party system. They would really like to be back in the days of the Tweedle-dee Liberal Party and the Tweedlum-dum Conservative Party, when "majority governance" of the ruling class was still possible, whichever party was in power. They want a return to this tighter dictatorial power governance system, with its bullshit charade democracy. It's still a bullshit democracy of course, but still more problematic for them to rule outright and more arbitrarily against "the people's interests".

For these reasons alone it should be roundly condemned by the truly national democratic movements, across all formal party lines, and by those of us outside of it.

[RoyWhyte]

Democracy in Canada died today. What pretense of a working/functioning democracy has been thrown out the window.

The worst part is not the weak-kneed sniveling CEO's, it's the leaders of the other four parties. Layton that little worm, Harper the wanna-be dictator and Dumb and Dumber did this through political pressure. Like the worst aspects of quasi-democracies in Africa or South America, our political leaders have put themselves first. They are establishing the same entrenched party system that has destroyed the democracy south of us.

Sept 8 2008 - the day Canada ceased being a real democracy.

[Wayne Coady]

Ms. May .
Now do you believe me when I say democracy in Canada is a myth and having people vote in an election only justifies this very abusive political system.

Yes ..voting is an act which we all consider an act of taking part in government building , and at the time we all feel as if we are doing something constructive. But like I said 24 hours or less after the vote count and the party with the most votes wins government, DEMOCRACY dies.

Like I said , I am not a green party supporter, but I am a supporter of a true democracy and what these political parties and their hacks have done to you ...is nothing less than what they have done to me and many other Canadians.

This is why I truly believe that the only way to get good government is to remove the party and replace it with independents.

I speak honestly , when I say that I am hurt by this action and my heart felt apologies on behalf of this country. Canada hasn't only been let down today , but this action has killed what little faith I had in this country.

To think we have Canadian troops in Afghanistan fighting for that countries citizens right , while right here in Canada democracy is under attack.

Wayne Coady
Coalition of Independent Candidates .

[RickW]

siamdrive:

I certainly hope you are not supporting in any way, the slimeball Mulroney..........
http://www.vivelecanada.ca/article/1046 ... e-part-one

[RickW]

http://www.vivelecanada.ca/article/2359 ... d#comments

[coyoteman]

If the issue really is "democracy", and I tend to agree that it is, real power, in any case, doesn't so much lie within "state power" per se, and who holds "formal" governance right there. Which is not to say that state power and workable system of democracy there is "unimportant". It is simply more to say that a more, indeed the primary level of "power" within society is precisely where there is very little to no "democracy" right now, and that is within the board rooms and management oversight committees of our major economic enterprises/institutions. (Even where the working class is organized into relatively influential labour unions, laws, rules and contracts restrict their participation and bargaining rights to only wages and working conditions-, and not upon the nature of ownership and management exercise within those enterprises/institutions. An "power and democracy" limiting arrangement in which labour leadership largely plays a complicit role with Big Capital.)

My central argument being, of course, that there cannot/will not be a more meaningful level of "political democracy" at the State levels of society, until there is a more "democratically meaningful" arrangement of power within the underpinning economic institutions of society. (It is this veto power of the ruling class within the economy that is the reason all formal political parties appear and act the same, fundamentally, the day after the so-called "election".)

In short, a more "democratic power", including labour, consumers, and all the other "interest groups" (environmentalists and community groups etc.) within the economy and its enterprises is only what will, in the final analysis, make a more real and workable "political democracy" a reality as well. For an increased "popular power presence" there, with its attendant redistribution of wealth and power potential, will work as it does for the economic ruling class now, translate into political power and control.

Short of this kind of evolution/revolution within society, it is all so much soft shoe shuffle dancing and the rearranging of the deck chairs on the Titanic. And it is the absence of this kind of "economic democracy" that so makes the current ruling class system of so-called "democracy" such a waster of frigging time-, for those of us in the "common herd".

Regrettably, it all likely needs to unravel of a result of its own internal contradictions, including its consequent "environmental" contradictions, before new opportunities for development emerge out of the collapse of the current Corporatist Rome-, for us wage slaves anyway.

[coyoteman]

"As long as we dance to their tunes, we have no chance. As long as we accept their 'right' to say 'Choose A, B or C', and do not demand NONE of the above!! - we have no chance. As long as we accept their box, we have no chance." wrote siamdave.

Actually, not bad at all siamdave. Certainly I very much agree with your statement that I've quoted above.

The limiting of "democracy" to formal "political governance" alone, and to formal "political parties", all of them seeing themselves as "special" collections of "vanguardists", lies at the heart of the problem of so-called "democracy". We need to re-think this whole notion of "democracy" being (a) only political, and divorced of economic content, and (b) the exclusive arena of contending "parties" that sideline the rest of us to simple "aye" and "nay" sayers.

Which is why, fundamentally, in the current arrangement of the economic and political order, I have long been an advocate of "street power democracy" for those of us outside the "party system". Setting aside for the moment the ideal of an "economic democracy" linked up with a "political democracy" that grows out of that, it is the absence of an effective and powerful "street power democracy" in our time, that really disenfranchises "the masses". For it is that engagement of the disenfranchised which the ruling class and the "party vanguard elitists" really fear, whilst it absence makes them arrogant and contemptuous of "the people".

This is the most immediate change that needs to occur within what currently passes for "democracy" and "politics" within this country-, and indeed elsewhere, no more than in the US Empire heartland itself.

[Rural]

You all are correct in that this could well be the final death throws of or demorcracy. Those not taking notice seem to focus upon the polocies of the various partys, I say that if the democratic processes are bypassed or negated or ignored by our MPs and established partys all else is meaninless.
I have chosen to focus upon this issue and will repost part of an earlier post with some updates..........

Here is my partial list of this governments anti democratic actions:-

1) Appointed Michael Fortier as Minister of Public Works rather that an elected MP.

2) Encouraged and enabled reelected Liberal Minister, David Emerson to cross the floor and move directly into a key position in the Conservative cabinet.

3) Refusal to talk with the press except in rare, highly controlled and predetermined, government dictated press conferences.

4) Dictating to elected MPs what they can and cannot say to the electorate and to the press. (All partys try and control the message to some extent but this one has gone way beyond the norm)

5) The summary removal from the party of any MPs who do speak out against a particular party policy. (Garth Turner, Bill Casey)

6) Dictating to the local party organizations who they can and cannot propose as their candidate for election. (as above, Mark Warner and others)

7) Actively disrupting the free and open debate of amendments in parliamentary committees by directing the appointed Conservative chairs to obstruct unfavorable comment and testimony.

Producing and distributing to said chairs a 200 plus page document to assist them in this disruption. (witness the committee debate on SPP)

9) Deciding to prorogue parliament rather than just the normal summer recess thus unnecessarily effectively killing any pieces of legislation already in progress.

10) Upon return dictating / threatening that ANY legislation proposed by the government shall be a matter of confidence and that NO opposition amendments will be considered.

11) The PMs threat to the Senate that there would be �consequences� if they stalled his big crime bill., (before it has even been voted upon by the MPs). He has also said several times that abolishing the Senate would be an option if it cannot be reformed.

12) Your choice, the list expands with each day this government feels it has �The Right to Govern� without regard to democratic process.

Addendum Sept 2008, little has changed, just more of the same, here are a few of the more obvious and more recent attacks upon our Parliamentary Democracy.

13) Requiring all government departments and diplomats to get prior approval of the text of any and all public statements or releases from the PMO before speaking to the press or public.

14) Firing the Chair of an arms length Commission, without due process, for doing her job, namely ensuring that nuclear safety protocols were followed to the letter.

15) Attempting to break the rules on election spending by �laundering� the money through local candidates bank accounts and then calling into doubt Elections Canada�s integrity when caught. Refusing to cooperate with a duly formed House of Commons Committee formed to investigate such claims.

16) Abusing the House of Commons rules on publicly funded printing and mail outs by exceeding the allowable 10% monthly volume and including partisan election type commentary in said flyers. (Some household have received as many as five in one month)

17) Sponsoring a series of election style advertisements attacking the integrity of a sitting member of the House of Commons (Mr Dion) outside of an election call. (this breaks no rules but is most certainly an anti democratic action)

18) And finally, ignoring his own legislation setting a fixed election date by calling this election for political gain and trying to lay blame upon the opposition partys for doing their job (opposing).

�Democracy�
-The presence of institutions and procedures through which citizens can express preferences about policies and leaders; existence of institutionalized constraints on the power of the executive; and the guarantee of civil liberties to all citizens.

�Oligarchy�
-A form of government where political power effectively rests with a small, elite segment of society

I will let you decide which description is the closest to the form of government we have experienced of late. I think my view is quite clear. If anyone can explain how any of the above actions enhance our democracy or increase the �openness and accountability� of our government as promised during the 2006 campaign I would really like to hear the explanation!

Now #19:- Ignoring the wishes of about 80% of Canadians by being the major (but not only) player in excluding the Greens who have abt 10% of the popular vote from the National televised debate.

[DevoBab]

This jsut shows hte lack of guts in this country.

- Harper and all those opposed to may being in the debate are all gutless for not wanting to debate her. If anyone truly is worthy of leading a country they would debate all comers.

- Those at the network that decided democracy isn't for them are gutless. If they truly did listen to Harper they are dumb and gutless. Call his bluff. If he didn't show up to a debate it would be disaster for him. He would look yellow.

When everyone with any sort of swing or oppositional power are scared of Harper, what is the point to even having an election? Harper isn't as smart nor powerful as he thinks he is. Someone simply has to show him in the right way. backing down isn't it.

http://www.theramblingsofafrustratedjou ... ogspot.com

[SphinxMontreal]

These worthless debates are nothing more than a dog & pony show. Like we don't get enough garbage from these professional liars on a daily basis. The media and the Government are colluding on destroying the democratic process, what little of it there is left.

[RickW]

Evidently, Elizabeth May is "back in". What does that have to say about the "shoot from the hip" initial reaction of the Three Amigos, considering that they want the voters to actually choose from among them?

Sphinx:
Perhaps with May back in, the calibre of the debate will improve...........I am anticipating Harper spluttering and getting all twisted in his knickers.........

[Dr Caleb]

RickW RickW:

I am anticipating Harper spluttering and getting all twisted in his knickers.........

I anticipating Harper letting us see more of his rehearsed 'softer' side, and avoiding policy issues altogether.

If I hear another "tory" Majority prediction, I think I'll spooge.

[RickW]

Dr Caleb Dr Caleb:

RickW RickW:

I am anticipating Harper spluttering and getting all twisted in his knickers.........

I anticipating Harper letting us see more of his rehearsed 'softer' side, and avoiding policy issues altogether.

If I hear another "tory" Majority prediction, I think I'll spooge.

I bow to your wiser prognostication............