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PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2006 10:21 pm
 


<strong>Written By:</strong> whelan costen
<strong>Date:</strong> 2006-01-02 21:21:00
<a href="/article/212117420-thinking-vs-processing--something-to-really-think-about">Article Link</a>

Certainty is where people stop thinking and stop noticing. Any time you feel absolutely certain of something, that’s a sure sign that you have missed something. It’s sometimes convenient to deliberately ignore something for a while, but if you’re absolutely certain, you’ll miss it forever.

It’s easy for certainty to sneak up on you. Even people who are uncertain are usually certain about that, too. Either they’re sure they’re sure, or they’re sure they’re unsure.

Rarely do you find someone who is uncertain about his doubts or uncertain about his certainty. You can create that experience, but you don’t usually encounter it. You can ask someone, “Are you sure enough to be unsure?” That’s a stupid question, one he won’t be sure anymore after you ask it.

The third disease is importance, and self-importance is the worst of all. As soon as one thing is “important,” then other things aren’t. Importance is a great way to justify being mean and destructive, or doing anything else that’s unpleasant enough to need justification.

These three diseases are the way most people get stuck. You may decide something is important , but you can’t get really serious about it until you’re certain that it’s important. At this point you stop thinking altogether. " Using Your Brain--For a Change: Richard Bandler: ISBN 0911226273

Something to think about at least...





[Proofreader's note: this article was edited for spelling and typos on January 3, 2006]



"aaaah and the whisper of thousands of tiny voices became a mighty deafening roar and they called it 'freedom'!"' Canadians Acting Humanely at home & everywhere


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2006 10:52 pm
 


wow
Thankyou Catherine
I place great value in Richard's work


---
Your mantra has been your opinions are stifled due to their contrary nature, when they are actually stifled for being without perceivable foundation



"When I tell the truth, it is not for the sake of convincing those who do not know it, but for the sake of defending those that do."

William Blake

"To acquire knowledge, one must study;
but to acquire wisdom, one must observe."





PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2006 10:59 pm
 


Yes, but... critical thinking involves collecting and observing the closest thing you can get to "facts" and coming to some conclusions through rational processes (or intuitive/artistic if you want) about what these mean. From here you can take action and bring thought into the world, be it writing something or a protest. This does not mean you are not open to future challenges to your conclusions or recognition that it in fact some of the "facts" were not so factual. Still some level of certainty and seriousness, and a sense of what is important, are necessary if thinking is to move out of your head and into the world. Recognizing "importance" is at some level about prioritizing what you will take action on. I cannot act on everything I might want to, so I must deduce what is my priority. The author offers good insights about thinking vs. processing, but the claims themselves deserve critical attention. I would be paralysed if seriousness, certainty and importance were only negatives. I sense part of our social problem is not just the replacement of thinking by processing but a profound sense of paralysis and powerlessness related to all the processing we do without thinking.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 1:25 am
 


There is great truth in your wordy assesment.
And that which you bring to our attention is but only part of the activity at play any given moment.

and damned straight Bro
thanks for the contibution


---
Your mantra has been your opinions are stifled due to their contrary nature, when they are actually stifled for being without perceivable foundation



"When I tell the truth, it is not for the sake of convincing those who do not know it, but for the sake of defending those that do."

William Blake

"To acquire knowledge, one must study;
but to acquire wisdom, one must observe."


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 10:03 am
 


I think, it is most important to realize, and to accept the fact, that almost anything we believe in could be wrong and often is. It is extremely difficult to shed long held, often artificially installed beliefs, that may have crippled the true development of civilizations for hundreds of years. But then comes the most difficult part of starting new.

I was 18 when my world collapsed and I had to realize that almost everything I've believed in, learned in school and in my early life, were lies. In many cases such shock leads people into other, even crazier beliefs, but in my case, it lead to the constant questioning of the accepted, and the study of history to find the common denominator of history's tragedies, which took me 40 years.

When we look at history with an open and objective mind, we can not escape the realization that the course of history and the fate of humankind has always been decided, controlled and led by charlatans, outright crooks and nutcases. We can see all these in our present world, especially with our potentials for instant communication.

The sordid fact is that people are educated not to think, but to unconditionally accept teachings, propaganda, religions, ideologies and be ready to suffer and die in the service of special interests, who, through history, have used the gullibility of people to enslave and lead them into self destruction.

The installation of the belief in personal incompetence has always been the strongest weapon in the hands of rulers, because incompetence is the biggest profit creating machine.

Unless humanity will one day wake up and start looking for, and using solid physical facts for the determination of their beliefs, and fate, this ever repeated cycle of programmed self destruction will just carry on unabated.

History doesn't repeat itself by accident, or by some kind of unescapable divine guidance, but because of the programmed repetition of the same mistakes and always for the glorification of the same self appointed aristocracy in control of economies.

Ed Deak, Big Lake, BC.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 10:21 am
 


"The sordid fact is that people are educated not to think, but to unconditionally accept teachings, propaganda, religions, ideologies and be ready to suffer and die in the service of special interests, who, through history, have used the gullibility of people to enslave and lead them into self destruction."<br />
<br />
Reminds me of:<br />
<br />
"... let a prince have the credit of conquering and holding his state, the means will always be considered honest, and he will be praised by everybody because the vulgar are always taken by what a thing seems to be and by what comes of it; and in the world there are only the vulgar, for the few find a place there only when the many have no ground to rest on."<br />
<br />
From the master of sordid fact, Machiavelli, in "The Prince", Chapter 18 (full text online at <a href="http://www.constitution.org/mac/prince00.htm">http://www.constitution.org/mac/prince00.htm</a> )<br />


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 11:27 am
 


I think the word "indoctrinated" should be substituted for the word "educated". The hunt for a "better fit" should be a constant intellectual activity.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 2:06 pm
 


You're quite right, but there's a lot of connection between the two words and concepts, because education has been used since the beginning of human history to indoctrinate people, so they accept their humanly preordained fate.

At the same time, there's also a lot of difference between education, teaching and learning. E.g The taught, or rather indoctrinated, or brainwashed belief that the word "democracy" means the unquestioned acceptance of a self appointed, special interest ruling class, whether they're called "aristocracy", "party cadre", or "investors".

The English, and all other languages, are full of the buzzwords of indoctrination, like "consumers", "efficient", "cost cutting", "cheap", "restructuring", "outsourcing", "investors", "wealth creation", "national interest", "globalization", "free trade", etc, etc. all designed to mislead the public into acceptance of psychological enslavement.

The concept of a "Prince" either in Machiavelli's writings, or in real life, is also a result of indoctrination, because , what makes a prince and who gave him his powers?

Ed Deak,


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 3:06 pm
 


"The concept of a "Prince" ... in Machiavelli's writings ... is also a result of indoctrination, because , what makes a prince and who gave him his powers?"

That's Machiavelli's whole point, is it not? People are often so taken aback by his choice of audience that they ignore the substance of his analysis and the critical importance for a democracy to understand it and apply appropriate vigilance.





PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 5:52 pm
 


People are stupid, so what? For the most part most people have just muddled through everything since pre-history. Get over it! Evolutionary Psychology says we must have evolved this way for some reason that helped us survive over the eons. That's not to say we can't always improve, but, still ...chill out dudes!


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 5:53 pm
 


After I posted that link to that online copy of The Prince I noticed the domain carries amongst its garden-variety U.S. Constitutional analysis a unhealthy dose of conspiracy theory and what appears to be outright quackery. My use of linked copy of The Prince was by no means an endorsement of any other materials on that site!


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 6:50 pm
 


I was wondering when some troll discovers this discussion. How about some name calling to earn your keep?

Ed Deak.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 12:25 am
 


Re: oops<br />
<br />
Did you also happen to notice links to the best law dictionaries printed,<br />
As well as other relied upon source material?<br />
<a href="http://www.constitution.org/cs_refer.htm">http://www.constitution.org/cs_refer.htm</a> <br />
<br />
from an other site and not to be taken as a shot at you.<br />
<br />
"Your level of ignorance does not make me a 'wacko'; it just makes you more ignorant than I am.<br />
One remedy for ignorance is study."<br />
<br />
As I see it, MK the diseases outlined in Richard Bandler’s book some of which is featured on a different thread, can be found in your quick-call " a unhealthy dose of conspiracy theory and what appears to be outright quackery"<br />
<br />
appearances can be deceiving until a level of knowledge of any particular work is undertaken.<br />
To NOT give attention to out of some sense of certainty raises Richard's question: “Are you sure enough to be unsure?”<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<p>---<br>Your mantra has been your opinions are stifled due to their contrary nature, when they are actually stifled for being without perceivable foundation



"When I tell the truth, it is not for the sake of convincing those who do not know it, but for the sake of defending those that do."

William Blake

"To acquire knowledge, one must study;
but to acquire wisdom, one must observe."


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 1:17 am
 


I tried to get this book, and apparently it is out of print. There are some used copies available so I may try to hunt one down.

---
If I stand for my country today...will my country be here to stand for me tomorrow?



"aaaah and the whisper of thousands of tiny voices became a mighty deafening roar and they called it 'freedom'!"' Canadians Acting Humanely at home & everywhere


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 4:49 am
 


i COULDA SUBMITTED THIS IN THE HUMOR SECTION,BUT<br />
It fitzwell here to<br />
<br />
<a href="http://www.remote.org/jochen/humor/c1/hammer.html">http://www.remote.org/jochen/humor/c1/hammer.html</a><br />
<br />
The Hammer<br />
(From: Nobody@Nowhere.com (Scorpion) in alt.destroy.microsoft<br />
<br />
As I was walking down the street the other day, I noticed a man working on his house. He seemed to be having a lot of trouble. As I came closer, I saw that he was trying to pound a nail into a board by a window --- with his FOREHEAD! He seemed to be in a great deal of pain. This made me feel very bad, watching him suffer so much just to fix his window pane. I thought, "Here is an opportunity to make someone very happy simply by showing him a better way to do things." Seeing him happy would make me happy too. So I said, "Excuse me sir, there is a better way to do that."<br />
<br />
He stopped pounding his head on the nail and with blood streaming down his face said, "What?" I said, "There is a better way to pound that nail. You can use a hammer."<br />
<br />
He said, "What?"<br />
<br />
I said "A hammer. It's a heavy piece of metal on a stick. You can use it to pound the nail. It's faster and it doesn't hurt when you use it."<br />
<br />
"A hammer, huh?"<br />
<br />
"That's right. If you get one I can show you how to use it and you'll be amazed how much easier it will make your job."<br />
<br />
Somewhat bewildered he said, "I think I have seen hammers, but I thought they were just toys for kids."<br />
<br />
"Well, I suppose kids could play with hammers, but I think what you saw were brightly colored plastic hammers. They look a bit like real hammers, but they are much cheaper and don't really do anything," I explained.<br />
<br />
"Oh," he said. Then went on, "But hammers are more expensive than using my forehead. I don't want to spend the money for a hammer."<br />
<br />
Now somewhat frustrated I said, "But in the long run the hammer would pay for itself because you would spend more time pounding nails and less time treating head wounds."<br />
<br />
"Oh," he said. "But I can't do as much with a hammer as I can with my forehead," he said with conviction.<br />
<br />
Exasperated, I went on. "Well, I'm not quite sure what else you've been using your forehead for, but hammers are marvelously useful tools. You can pound nails, pull nails, pry apart boards. In fact every day people like you seem to be finding new ways to use hammers. And I'm sure a hammer would do all these things much better than your forehead."<br />
<br />
"But why should I start using a hammer? All my friends pound nails with their foreheads too. If there were a better way to do it I'm sure one of them would have told me," he countered.<br />
<br />
Now he had caught me off guard. "Perhaps they are all thinking the same thing," I suggested. "You could be the first one to discover this new way to do things," I said with enthusiasm.<br />
<br />
With a skeptical look in his bloodstained eye he said,"Look, some of my friends are professional carpenters. You can't tell me they don't know the best way to pound nails."<br />
<br />
"Well, even professionals become set in their ways and resist change." Then in a frustrated yell I continued, "I mean, come on! You can't just sit there and try to convince me that using your forehead to pound nails is better than using a hammer!"<br />
<br />
Now quite angry he yelled back, "Hey listen buddy, I've been pounding nails with my forehead for many years now. Sure, it was painful at first but now it's second nature to me. Besides, all my friends do it this way and the only people I've ever seen using hammers were little kids. So take your stupid little children's toys and get the hell off my property!"<br />
<br />
Stunned, I started to step back. I nearly tripped over a large box of head bandages. I noticed a very expensive price tag on the box and a blue company logo on the price tag. I had seen all I needed to see. This man had somehow been brainwashed, probably by the expensive bandage company, and was beyond help. Hell, let him bleed, I thought. People like that deserve to bleed to death. I walked along, happy that I owned not one but three hammers at home. I used them every day at school and I use them now every day at work and I love them. A sharp pain hit my stomach as I recalled the days before I used hammers, but I reconciled myself with the thought that tonight at the hammer users club meeting I could talk to all my friends about their hammers. We will make jokes about all the idiots we know that don't have hammers and discuss whether we should spend all of our money buying the fancy new hammers that just came out. Then when I get home, like every night, I will sit up and use one of my hammers until very late when I finally fall asleep. In the morning I will wake up ready to go out into the world proclaiming to all non-hammer users how they too could become an expert hammer user like me.<br />
<p>---<br>Your mantra has been your opinions are stifled due to their contrary nature, when they are actually stifled for being without perceivable foundation



"When I tell the truth, it is not for the sake of convincing those who do not know it, but for the sake of defending those that do."

William Blake

"To acquire knowledge, one must study;
but to acquire wisdom, one must observe."


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