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PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2006 9:46 am
 


<strong>Written By:</strong> 4Canada
<strong>Date:</strong> 2006-05-31 09:46:56
<a href="/article/3056513-troops-told-geneva-rules-dont-apply-to-taliban">Article Link</a>

Captured fighters don't deserve these rights because this isn't a war between countries, says Lieutenant-General Michel Gauthier, who commands the Canadian Expeditionary Forces Command and thus oversees all Canadian Forces deployed abroad.

“They are not entitled to prisoner-of-war status but they are entitled to prisoner-of-war treatment,” he said, asserting that all detainees are humanely treated.

“The regulations apply in an armed conflict between states, and what's happening in Afghanistan is not an armed conflict between states. And therefore there is no basis for making a determination of individuals being prisoners of war,” he said.

<a href="http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20060530.wxdetainee30/BNStory/Afghanistan/home">http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20060530.wxdetainee30/BNStory/Afghanistan/home</a>







[Proofreader's note: this article was edited for spelling and typos on June 1, 2006]


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PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2006 10:28 am
 


Taliban supporters who are citizens of Afghanistan, should in my opinion be covered by the stipulations of the Geneva Convention. Those who are foreigners (i.e. mercenaries), should likely not be covered.

Maybe that is where the dividing line is. A blanket statement does not make this distinction.



Jacob


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PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2006 10:55 am
 


This seems to be setting a dangerous precedent. The Taliban were the governing faction in Afghanistan when the coalition invaded. Since one of the purposes of the invasion was "regime change" the Taliban government, or at least some of it, was replaced. Now the claim is being made that the Geneva Conventions or Canadian regulations regarding the rights of prisioners don't apply because the war isn't between countries.

In my mind you cannot make a distinction based on the fact that the invaders have installed a puppet administration after the invasion as an excuse for violating the rights of those fightening for the deposed government. No matter how much you might dislike the type of government the Taliban provided, two wrongs never make a right. Canada was involved in the invasion of Afghanistan and the Taliban are the people of that country so there is no politically correct way to justify inhumanity to these people who see themselves as fighting to protect their way of life.


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PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2006 11:10 am
 


What bothers me most about this is the words: "Canadian troops in Afghanistan have been told", and that the report comes from Washington.

By whom? By the US overlords of the Canadian mercenaries?(that would ironically make sense, doen't it?)

I guess if that is true, the Canadian troops (if caught by the Taliban) are also not covered by the Geneva Convention.

Canada has no purpose as warmongers in Afghanistan. Only as peacekeepers under UN oversight.



Jacob


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PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2006 11:52 am
 


Canadians cannot be peacekeepers in Afghanistan, period. Peacekeeping is when two sides of a conflict agree to have a third party sit between them and act as a buffer. The Afghan government never agreed to having anyone act as a peacekeeping force, therefore we are there as foreign mercenaries to suppord the American imposed government.

We are foreign mercs working for the Americans. Nothing more, nothing less. According to our masters in Washington, this makes us enemy combatents and not entitled to Geneva Convention protections either.


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PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2006 2:23 pm
 


If Canadian troops, or anyone else for that matter, were captured by the Taliban, the Taliban would not adhere to any principles of the convention. They would be tortured, filmed and killed... not necessarily in that order. <br />
<br />
Here's a brief history on how the Taliban handles prisoners:<br />
<br />
There is the torture (real torture, not being held in detention with 3 square meals and your prayer mats and a Koran):<br />
"The men who were detained between approximately January 5 and 10 were subjected to severe beatings with electric cables and were forced to stand outside in sub-zero temperatures and snow. One of those who was later killed near the Robatak pass, Sayyid Tajuddin, who was thirty-eight, suffered frostbite as a result of the exposure following his beating" <br />
<br />
and<br />
<br />
"The body of another man, identified as Sahib Dad, was found tied to a tree, his arms and legs each tied separately with a length of rope in such a way that his captors would have been able to manipulate them while he was immobilized"<br />
<br />
<a href="http://www.hrw.org/reports/2001/afghanistan/afghan101-04.htm#P176_25561">http://www.hrw.org/reports/2001/afghanistan/afghan101-04.htm#P176_25561</a><br />
<br />
And it's not just prisoners they kill - there is a reason the NGO's don't go to areas where there are no coalition troops providing security. <br />
<br />
"Eyewitnesses reported that personnel of the Center for Cooperation on Afghanistan (CCA), a local aid agency-identified as Sayyid Sarwar and Sayyid Talib-were among the civilians rounded up in Dar-i Ali and executed outside the relief agency office. Other staff members of relief agencies were identified among those killed. These included a driver named Daoud who was working for a international humanitarian agency; a man named Qasim who worked as an assistant in the leprosy clinic; and Sayyid Ibrahim and a man named Tahsili, both of whom worked in the district hospital and were staff members of a local assistance organization". <br />
<br />
They were doing those killings long before they were tossed out.<br />
<br />
<a href="http://www.hrw.org/reports/2001/afghanistan/afghan101-03.htm#P126_15001">http://www.hrw.org/reports/2001/afghanistan/afghan101-03.htm#P126_15001</a><br />
<br />
Civilians and ethnic groups other than those "foreign mercenaries" you so despise are not immune to the attrocities the Taliban carry out. The Taliban had a particular hate on for the Hazaras. <br />
<br />
"How The Taliban Slaughtered 8000 people in Mazar-e-Sharif"<br />
<br />
<a href="http://www.hazara.net/taliban/genocide/mazar/mazar.html">http://www.hazara.net/taliban/genocide/mazar/mazar.html</a><br />
<br />
Canadians will still treat their prisoners humanely. The transfer of prisoners to the Afghans is handled under the following protocols:<br />
<br />
<a href="http://www.forces.gc.ca/site/operations/archer/agreement_e.asp">http://www.forces.gc.ca/site/operations/archer/agreement_e.asp</a><br />
<br />
Per the third item of that text, "The Participants will treat detainees in accordance with the standards set out in the Third Geneva Convention". They may not be listed as being governed by the convention, but they are still to be treated per that convention. <br />
<br />
So why the hell don't you guys scream when the Taliban burns a school, executes a teacher, assassinates a moderate cleric, ambushes an NGO... Where were you bleeding hearts when the Taliban was carrying out these attrocities? Where are you now when they kill and coerce? Well, you are standing side by side with them, now aren't you? Wishing the worst for the "foreign mercenaries" and the best for those "fighting to uphold their traditions". Traditions like murder, fear, torture... ah, yes... the good ol' days. <br />
<br />
All we hear from you is this "Canada is a puppet of the US" cr@p. Lamentations that the MSM is cow towing to the Harperites (I guess that is why they walked out on him). I wish the media would be more fair. And get the pictures of those tortured and killed by the Taliban (as well as pictures of the town bombed by the US jets). Show us the WHOLE picture and give some of you some real perspective.


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PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2006 2:41 pm
 


PatM
Your right. The peacenicks here in Canada have no clue. To them. Afghanis can kill each other, and that OK. But if we Soldiers of Canada go and stop it. We're mercs, and murders.
Why, most Candians have no clue of the real world. They have not been to countries that are torn by war. Children are kills, for going to school, doctors tortured, etc etc.
Well as I have stated I have been to those countries. And I rather be there trying to protect those lil children and allow them to go to school. Than the pieces is human crap, that call us Mercs.
Those that call us Mercs, are the same ones that cry, send in the Army, when theres a Flood, Ice Storms, etc.
Maybe we should have a log. Those that support us and those that don't. And when we are needed. Thoses that don't, get F#$@ all help.

---
27 in the military, 9 tours.



27 yrs in the military, 10 tours now and I hope another in Feb


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PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2006 3:24 pm
 


I am a Canadian
Free to speak without fear
Free to worship in my own way
Free to stand for what I believe is right
Free to oppose what I believe is wrong
Or free to choose those that shell govern my country
This heritage of freedom I pledge to uphold
For myself and all mankind.

(Fromm the Canadian Bill of Rights)

Why should I lower my standards, beliefs, values and turn my back on my religious values and beliefs by committing and doing what I know is wrong just because others or those that I fight against do it.

---
Perception is two thirds of what we perceive reality to be.

Difficult decisions are a privilege of rank.


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PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2006 3:35 pm
 


Huzzahh!!

---
"I think it's important to always carry enough technology to restart civilization, should it be necessary." Mark Tilden



Take the Kama Sutra. How many people died from the Kama Sutra as opposed to the Bible? - Frank Zappa


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PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2006 4:03 pm
 


What's this I see Doc?
An Americanism ?

;-)




---
The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing.... : Albert Einstein



"When I tell the truth, it is not for the sake of convincing those who do not know it, but for the sake of defending those that do."

William Blake

"To acquire knowledge, one must study;
but to acquire wisdom, one must observe."


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PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2006 4:18 pm
 


Some counterpoint for you Mickey<br />
You speak of inhumanity as though it where only done by the Taliban and Al Qaeda <br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<a href="http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/IraqCoverage/story?id=2015052&page=1">http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/IraqCoverage/story?id=2015052&page=1</a> <br />
<br />
<a href="http://www.rense.com/general71/sere.htm">http://www.rense.com/general71/sere.htm</a> <br />
<br />
<a href="http://www.choicechanges.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=594">http://www.choicechanges.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=594</a> <br />
<br />
<a href="http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/may2006/300506fakevideo.htm">http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/may2006/300506fakevideo.htm</a> <br />
<br />
<a href="http://www.aljazeera.com/me.asp?service_ID=11301">http://www.aljazeera.com/me.asp?service_ID=11301</a> <br />
<br />
<br />
Have you seen the photos of the deformed children due to DU bombs and other armaments?<br />
I suppose in your &#8220;firm footing&#8221; hallucinations these are acts of kindness<br />
From benevolent &#8220;democracies&#8221;<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<p>---<br>The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing.... : Albert Einstein



"When I tell the truth, it is not for the sake of convincing those who do not know it, but for the sake of defending those that do."

William Blake

"To acquire knowledge, one must study;
but to acquire wisdom, one must observe."


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PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2006 6:54 pm
 


Links 1, 2, 4 and 5 are all dealing with Iraq. Not Canadian treatment of prisoners Dio. Or even Afghan (who aren't saints by any means - but still better than the Taliban). Stay on topic. This link was with Canadian vs. Taliban treatment of prisoners. The least you could do is try to dredge up Somalia... at least that deals with Canadian soldiers.

Your 3rd link deals with DU... something Canadians and Afghans don't use. Just the Americans and the UK. I've seen pictures of what DU does to bunkers, and I have several friends who served in tank companies in Iraq who were using DU weapons... they are all fine by the way. Again, don't see what that has to do with this post.

Everything I posted was directed at how the TALIBAN treats prisoners - which was used to contrast the arguement of Canadians no longer considering Taliban a regular army and thus not subject to Geneva coverage.

C'mon, at least try to stem your anti-yankness for a minute and bring toward something that implicates Canadians or the Afghan government. There is some stuff out there, most of it dealing with the civil war and overthrow of the Taliban (at least on the Afghan side).


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PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2006 11:58 pm
 


<p> Exactly! <br /> <br />Whether we like the Taliban or not, they were the government of Afghanistan at the time of the American invasion and subsequent actions by Canadians via NATO. </p> <p>Case in point - the American government was sending them money to help eradicate the poppy crops and were negotiating pipelines with them shortly before Sept 11. So were other governments to some degree or another. That makes them a recognized authority - aka - the government of Afghanistan. <b>They never surrendered, so we are still fighting the same initial action until they do.</b> </p> <p>In our rush to play good little brother to America we are entering into a realm of empire. We are entering ourselves into the blow-back that will surely come as a result - just as Sept 11 was blow-back from earlier American adventures in the Middle East. We are setting ourselves up outside of the laws we proclaim to stand for. </p> <p>This is not my idea of Canada, nor do I support this idea. For each step we take distancing ourselves from laws and norms already established, we place ourselves closer to those we proclaim to hate and mistrust. </p><p>---<br>If there was ever a time for Canadians to become pushy - now is the time - for time is running out on this nation called Canada.



If there was ever a time for Canadians to become pushy - now is the time - for time is running out on this nation called Canada.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 12:05 am
 


Don't you just love right-wing/pro-war thought processes?

Taliban = bad. Therefor we should also abandon the rule of law and be bad too.

The pro-war crowd never ceases to amaze!

---
If there was ever a time for Canadians to become pushy - now is the time - for time is running out on this nation called Canada.



If there was ever a time for Canadians to become pushy - now is the time - for time is running out on this nation called Canada.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 12:46 am
 


Gee, where have I heard this before? Something about "illegal combatents" comes to mind but I just can't place it ...

The opposition is showing its true colors by allowing this to happen, since they could stop it in an instant but have chosen to go along for the ride.

When the news of Canadian atrocities starts filtering through the alternate media, both Harper and the opposition parties should be held accountable as participants in war crimes.

Up next: Canadian victims of torture, collective punishment killings, infinite "detention", and plenty more "suicide bombers" blowing themselves up for no damned good reason at all.

Sure makes ya proud to be Canadain, eh?


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