[FieryVulpine]

If I had to guess, it's due--in part--to the what I see is toxic about Canadian culture as a whole. One that is insecure and self-aggrandizing with a constant need for attention and praise from the international community because we can never match the United States. It's a flaw that has existed since the Loyalists left for what is now Ontario. Canada used to pride itself on being part of the British Empire because we thought it gave us a sense of superiority over the Americans before it transformed into something else entirely. Justin Trudeau himself remarked that Canada was a "post-national state" with no core identity.

That contradiction bothers me. Now that the Liberals are effectively the party of Justin Trudeau they believe that Canada's national identity is that it has no national identity similar to how Seinfeld was a show about nothing. Canada is simply a postmodern social experiment. Not that a particularly blame JT for that mindset--he was raised to believe that deconstruction was a good thing.

The man himself has no principles save for what he believes will bring him the most praise or political benefit. For example, he's willing to accept the results of the MMIWG inquiry that concluded Canada committed genocide, but refused to declare ISIS's actions genocide after their treatment of religious minorities in the Middle East. This is especially jarring after our own allies did so. It would not surprise me if the reason why his government is so fervent on the climate issue is because it is the cause célèbre of the left.

His policies effectively crippled the Canadian energy industry and for what? Canada generates less than 2% of GHG emissions and oil consumption is only increasing so it isn't about saving the planet. Hell, he sent more delegates to the Paris Accords than the US/UK/Australia combined. It was all a show so that he could grab as much attention for himself. His policies did more to help our competitors who are more likely laughing at us than wanting to emulate us. Meanwhile, our once-stalwart allies and trading partners hold us more in contempt like Japan, Australia, the United States, etc, which has left us diplomatically isolated as our spats with Saudi Arabia and China demonstrate.

It goes beyond economics at the core of it. Trudeau and everything his represents (of lack thereof) is a cancer to this country's soul. If Canada have no core identity then there is no Canada--just a disparate collection of regions with next to nothing to bind us together. If that is the case, then there is really nothing for the West to separate from--at least on a conceptual level. We are simply best served to break off from the "country" that has no idea of what it is anymore. I liken it to a an old house where termites have eaten away at the frame and the foundation is settling. JT and the Liberal believe that putting on a new coat of paint will fix its problems, and ignore the underlying issues because the obsess over a superficial world view.

If that is the case, then we should simply leave because Canada is effectively dead.

[raydan]

Prepare to tell me how wrong I am...

The oil sands will still be there in the future if you don't exploit them now. It might even be better if you wait 10 or even 50 years to exploit them... even though the people want jobs and money NOW. Demand can only go in the future, I think.

I have a question though... if we eventually move completely away from burning fossil fuels (I know, it's a stretch), how economically feasible would it be to extract oil to produce the 6000 other products that are made from petroleum?

[herbie]

Jesus you guys, you're as bad as the Albertans you accuse of not "getting it".
Yeah some of them are mad about the tanker ban, even though there's no fucking pipeline going to where they're banned. TMX isn't good enough for those people, they want ALL pipelines approved.

[FieryVulpine]

Oh, hush, Herb. You are just proving that British Columbians are the clueless hillbillies of confederation.

[Tricks]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Edmonton to Vancouver is the shortest route to tide water. I can see a tanker ban on most of the west coast, for the same reason. It's very sensitive habitat.

But there have been suggestions on another route, from Washington State to the Yukon.

Besides the cost of the pipeline itself and everything that goes with it, once in place, how much more energy does it end up taking to send the product to a further point?

$1:

Right? He made those changes just before the election too, and no one said shit.

Now Jason Kenney has been bitching about the debt, and is going to start cutting infrastructure spending, but cancels the levy that was paying for the infrastructure spending. And blames Trudeau! WTF?

It's like backwards day around here.

Isn't there an interest free loan from the Bank of Canada provinces can get for infrastructure?

[DrCaleb]

raydan raydan:

Prepare to tell me how wrong I am...

The oil sands will still be there in the future if you don't exploit them now. It might even be better if you wait 10 or even 50 years to exploit them... even though the people want jobs and money NOW. Demand can only go in the future, I think.

I have a question though... if we eventually move completely away from burning fossil fuels (I know, it's a stretch), how economically feasible would it be to extract oil to produce the 6000 other products that are made from petroleum?

You aren't wrong.

But Albertans wan the money NOW! So we aren't shipping crude, and TMX will not ship crude. It will ship what is called 'dilbit'. Diluted Bitumen, which is oilsand with the sand removed and diluted with a solvent so it can be pumped through a pipeline. It's nasty stuff. Only certain refineries can handle it, and those refineries are built in Asia.

Syncrude built it's own refinery to handle it, and upgrade it to synthetic crude oil by cracking it onto usable components, and removing impurities like butane and sulphur. Syncrude Synthetic Sweet Blend costs more on the market, because it is in many ways better than West Texas sweet. You need to upgrade dilbit to synthetic crude before you can make plastics or petrochemicals out of it.

Building more refineries to ship better product seems like the financially smart thing to do, because it would create more jobs and value add, so that's why Alberta isn't doing it.

[DrCaleb]

Tricks Tricks:

Besides the cost of the pipeline itself and everything that goes with it, once in place, how much more energy does it end up taking to send the product to a further point?

No idea, but that cost is usually charged to the shipper, by the owner of the pipeline.

Tricks Tricks:

Isn't there an interest free loan from the Bank of Canada provinces can get for infrastructure?

Yup. But that would give Billions in interest to big banks, in Kenneyspeak. Or, they could have just left the Carbon Levy in place to generate the revenue needed to pay for LRT construction and Green initiatives.

[Tricks]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Tricks Tricks:

Besides the cost of the pipeline itself and everything that goes with it, once in place, how much more energy does it end up taking to send the product to a further point?

No idea, but that cost is usually charged to the shipper, by the owner of the pipeline.

Tricks Tricks:

Isn't there an interest free loan from the Bank of Canada provinces can get for infrastructure?

Yup. But that would give Billions in interest to big banks, in Kenneyspeak. Or, they could have just left the Carbon Levy in place to generate the revenue needed to pay for LRT construction and Green initiatives.

... How would an interest free loan give billions in interest?

[fifeboy]

[quote="DrCaleb" ]
Building more refineries to ship better product seems like the financially smart thing to do, because it would create more jobs and value add, so that's why Alberta isn't doing it.[/quote]
Several reasons:
TheROC hates them
Québec
The "East."
The Laurentian thing
BC lefties
TRUDEAU
Indians
Greta
Hockey stick "fake science"
Etc. Etc.
Oh, and did I forget to mention..........TRUDEAU

[DrCaleb]

Tricks Tricks:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Tricks Tricks:

Besides the cost of the pipeline itself and everything that goes with it, once in place, how much more energy does it end up taking to send the product to a further point?

No idea, but that cost is usually charged to the shipper, by the owner of the pipeline.

Tricks Tricks:

Isn't there an interest free loan from the Bank of Canada provinces can get for infrastructure?

Yup. But that would give Billions in interest to big banks, in Kenneyspeak. Or, they could have just left the Carbon Levy in place to generate the revenue needed to pay for LRT construction and Green initiatives.

... How would an interest free loan give billions in interest?

I do not pretend to understand Jason Kenney, any more than I do the people that voted for him.

[FieryVulpine]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

You aren't wrong.

But Albertans wan the money NOW! So we aren't shipping crude, and TMX will not ship crude. It will ship what is called 'dilbit'. Diluted Bitumen, which is oilsand with the sand removed and diluted with a solvent so it can be pumped through a pipeline. It's nasty stuff. Only certain refineries can handle it, and those refineries are built in Asia.

Syncrude built it's own refinery to handle it, and upgrade it to synthetic crude oil by cracking it onto usable components, and removing impurities like butane and sulphur. Syncrude Synthetic Sweet Blend costs more on the market, because it is in many ways better than West Texas sweet. You need to upgrade dilbit to synthetic crude before you can make plastics or petrochemicals out of it.

Building more refineries to ship better product seems like the financially smart thing to do, because it would create more jobs and value add, so that's why Alberta isn't doing it.

Makes sense, but BC would still bitch and moan because reasons.

[herbie]

$1:

Building more refineries to ship better product seems like the financially smart thing to do, because it would create more jobs and value add, so that's why Alberta isn't doing it.

Because shipping natural resources out in their rawest form and getting the least $$ possible for them is the Conservative/Free Enterprise way. Getting a couple dollars right fucking now is better than getting lots later, wasn't that the whole Tory campaign?
But what would BC'ers know? At least there are still some jobs driving those raw logs to the terminals, at least there's Uber jobs now driving the mill workers to the Welfare office...

[PluggyRug]

[uwish]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

I do not pretend to understand Jason Kenney, any more than I do the people that voted for him.

Well we know you lack reason and common sense, hence your lack of understanding..

[Thanos]

The oil companies, for whatever reason, don't want to build more refineries anywhere in Canada. One of their newer reasons for this is probably because Trudeau's fetish for over-regulation has effectively killed any investor interest in any sort of large projects in Alberta for at least a decade.