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PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2011 11:35 am
 


Lemmy wrote:
peck420 wrote:
And posting pics is as useful as federal fiscal policies...what is your point?

My point is that if you believe
Quote:
As for spending during a recession...the only people that should have been spending are the people. They should have cut income tax to the low and middle class and upped the GST to 10%. Would have been far more effective than anything the government did. As a side note, in construction, we refer to the government's spending programs as "The Gravy Trains". That should tell you everything you need to know about the effectiveness of government spending programs.
would be taken as a meaningful comment on the recession stimulus by anyone with even a 1st year understanding of economics, you're very much mistaken.

And andy, you're not even astute enough to realize when someone's agreeing with you.


Oh. I'm so used to you beating me up, I guess I can't tell anymore. Sorry about that. :oops:

In my defense, there was nothing in your statement that indicated you were agreeing with me. You seemed to be sneering at both of us.


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PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2011 11:49 am
 


andyt wrote:
In my defense, there was nothing in your statement that indicated you were agreeing with me. You seemed to be sneering at both of us.

I was sneering at both of you, but in this case, you're midget performing the full-Nelson, which is the preferable position of the two, isn't it? :P


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PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2011 11:55 am
 


Lemmy wrote:
would be taken as a meaningful comment on the recession stimulus by anyone with even a 1st year understanding of economics, you're very much mistaken.

Is your comment to my doubling GST to reduce income tax? Or to the government spending programs (more specifically the government's 2010 Canada's Economic Action Plan projects) as being 'Gravy Trains'?


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PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2011 12:37 pm
 


smorgdonkey wrote:
OnTheIce wrote:
Let's get a few things out there before we focus all our attention on our debt.

We can't forget that Harper paid down almost 30 billion in National debt before the Global Recession hit. He didn't piss away the surplus as some would like to think, he actually paid off some our debt saving us millions in debt service charges.

There is no doubt that the Conservatives have racked up a ton of debt, but we can't lose sight as to why (Recession stimulus). The vast majority of Canadians supported these measures as did all the Canadian political parties.


You seem to be one of those people who believe anything unless it is negative stuff 'about your guy'.

The surplus was gone and Harper had Canada into a deficit situation prior to the 'recession'. Also...once again, a 'recession' that didn't even exist according to him AND don't 'put the stimulus spending' on the electorate because the Conservatives did what they wanted to do with it regardless of many plans that were set forth/suggested by people which would have been much more effective INCLUDING the 'grant for Canadian made car purchase' incentive suggested by Ford and Toyota at the time. They spent it sprucing things up in Conservative ridings and prep for G8/G20 meetings and repaving roads - some of which were not in need of paving.

The GST cut was the most ridiculous move I've seen by a supposedly 'brilliant' politician. The GST is a consumption tax. It should have been left alone...BUT...it gives RICH people a tax break when they buy big things. They should have cut the lowest bracket of income taxes...but no, that won't help the rich. EVERY single thing that he has done has helped the rich...and here come the corporate tax breaks.

Anyway...because some people won't pay attention and other won't believe the truth, we have Harper in charge for 4 years. How are Conservatives and Conservative voters going to blame what's left after that on Cretien and Martin? For F sakes Harper spent over $5 million dollars running Ignatief character assassinations for the last 2 years not to mention the ones he was running during the election.

And you seem to be the one who believes he is far more intelligent than the majority of canadians. You also seem to be the one who bought into all the biased and baseless media slant. If you are trying to make a point why not back it up with some facts instead of what you gleaned from the CBC.


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PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2011 12:54 pm
 


peck420 wrote:
Everything and anything the cons did while under minority could have been stopped by the opposition.

They did nothing. Knowing that something is wrong and doing nothing is just as bad as participating.


So...while there was even less chance of anyone else other than Harper winning an election during that time and that the 'other parties' had to THREATEN a coalition to get Harper to take action, you think that they could have stopped him from doing anything that he wanted to do?

Have you forgotten that when in trouble, Harper prorogues?

Chillaxe wrote:
And you seem to be the one who believes he is far more intelligent than the majority of canadians. You also seem to be the one who bought into all the biased and baseless media slant. If you are trying to make a point why not back it up with some facts instead of what you gleaned from the CBC.


Which 'majority' of Canadians? I didn't buy into anything that didn't really happen. So...the G8/G20 only cost $1 million I suppose...the fact is that 40% of the population (not any 'majority') are either NOT paying attention, are out west and still can't forget about the NEP from the '70s, or blindly believe what Harper stated on his tv ads. There is a smaller portion of those people who may be voting for their local guy/girl who is running (that's redundant in today's politics) or they may be voting in protest.

One thing that is for sure...when someone says "you lefties all..." it is just about the same as saying "I'm stupid and I'm about to call you stupid".


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PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2011 12:59 pm
 


smorgdonkey wrote:
peck420 wrote:
Everything and anything the cons did while under minority could have been stopped by the opposition.

They did nothing. Knowing that something is wrong and doing nothing is just as bad as participating.


So...while there was even less chance of anyone else other than Harper winning an election during that time and that the 'other parties' had to THREATEN a coalition to get Harper to take action, you think that they could have stopped him from doing anything that he wanted to do?

Have you forgotten that when in trouble, Harper prorogues?

Chillaxe wrote:
And you seem to be the one who believes he is far more intelligent than the majority of canadians. You also seem to be the one who bought into all the biased and baseless media slant. If you are trying to make a point why not back it up with some facts instead of what you gleaned from the CBC.


Which 'majority' of Canadians? I didn't buy into anything that didn't really happen. So...the G8/G20 only cost $1 million I suppose...the fact is that 40% of the population (not any 'majority') are either NOT paying attention, are out west and still can't forget about the NEP from the '70s, or blindly believe what Harper stated on his tv ads. There is a smaller portion of those people who may be voting for their local guy/girl who is running (that's redundant in today's politics) or they may be voting in protest.

One thing that is for sure...when someone says "you lefties all..." it is just about the same as saying "I'm stupid and I'm about to call you stupid".


For sure they outnumbered you, for sure they didnt forget the CRETON years and for sure they didnt buy into the media crap, but for sure you did..........whose stupid?


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PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2011 2:23 pm
 


smorgdonkey wrote:
Have you forgotten that when in trouble, Harper prorogues?


Harper proruged parliment? When? I never realized that the constitution had been changed.

Please update me on how he got around the legal authority mess that would arise if ANY Prime Minister ever prorogued parliment.

Parliment was prorogued by the Governer General, which was a Governor General put into power by the Liberals no less.

To say that Michaelle Jean made that decision lightly would be assinine. She heard from both the Conservatives and all of the oppostition parties before making her decision. That tells me that we do not know the whole story and probably never will.

Your arguements are starting to get pretty typical...blame the 'Cons' blame the 'Cons'! Don't mind that our party was involved too, blame the 'Cons'!


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PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2011 2:40 pm
 


peck420 wrote:
Is your comment to my doubling GST to reduce income tax? Or to the government spending programs (more specifically the government's 2010 Canada's Economic Action Plan projects) as being 'Gravy Trains'?

Pulling numbers from one's ass is not how effective economic policy is designed.


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PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2011 4:44 am
 


Chillaxe wrote:
For sure they outnumbered you, for sure they didnt forget the CRETON years and for sure they didnt buy into the media crap, but for sure you did..........whose stupid?

I didn't forget the CRETON years either...HUGE SURPLUSES and PLENTY OF JOBS. It is a distant memory but I do still remember.

peck420 wrote:
smorgdonkey wrote:
Have you forgotten that when in trouble, Harper prorogues?


Harper proruged parliment? When? I never realized that the constitution had been changed.

Please update me on how he got around the legal authority mess that would arise if ANY Prime Minister ever prorogued parliment.

Parliment was prorogued by the Governer General, which was a Governor General put into power by the Liberals no less.

To say that Michaelle Jean made that decision lightly would be assinine. She heard from both the Conservatives and all of the oppostition parties before making her decision. That tells me that we do not know the whole story and probably never will.


Oh...so you typed all of that out so that you could pat yourself on the back due to a technicality? Wow.

Now I should post about your spelling mistakes and we'd be all even right? That's about the same level. Maybe you should stay off of the 420 and focus...

Dismissed.


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PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2011 8:09 am
 


smorgdonkey wrote:
Chillaxe wrote:
For sure they outnumbered you, for sure they didnt forget the CRETON years and for sure they didnt buy into the media crap, but for sure you did..........whose stupid?

I didn't forget the CRETON years either...HUGE SURPLUSES and PLENTY OF JOBS. It is a distant memory but I do still remember.

peck420 wrote:
smorgdonkey wrote:
Have you forgotten that when in trouble, Harper prorogues?


Harper proruged parliment? When? I never realized that the constitution had been changed.

Please update me on how he got around the legal authority mess that would arise if ANY Prime Minister ever prorogued parliment.

Parliment was prorogued by the Governer General, which was a Governor General put into power by the Liberals no less.

CRETON years Huge thefts, Massive Hand outs to "business aquaintances", Ever stretching lies and on and on.

Hey, why dont you go paint yourself a nice little sign exclaiming that the world is going to end, carry it around for oh about four years. Your whining is about the equivalent of just that so go make real.

You are absolutly dismissed loser.

To say that Michaelle Jean made that decision lightly would be assinine. She heard from both the Conservatives and all of the oppostition parties before making her decision. That tells me that we do not know the whole story and probably never will.


Oh...so you typed all of that out so that you could pat yourself on the back due to a technicality? Wow.

Now I should post about your spelling mistakes and we'd be all even right? That's about the same level. Maybe you should stay off of the 420 and focus...

Dismissed.


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PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2011 8:18 am
 


I didn't forget the CRETON years either...HUGE SURPLUSES and PLENTY OF JOBS. It is a distant memory but I do still remember.

peck420 wrote:
smorgdonkey wrote:
Have you forgotten that when in trouble, Harper prorogues?


Harper proruged parliment? When? I never realized that the constitution had been changed.

Oh...so you typed all of that out so that you could pat yourself on the back due to a technicality? Wow.

Now I should post about your spelling mistakes and we'd be all even right? That's about the same level. Maybe you should stay off of the 420 and focus...

Dismissed.
[/quote]

CRETON years Huge thefts, Massive Hand outs to "business aquaintances", Ever stretching lies and on and on.

Hey, why dont you go paint yourself a nice little sign exclaiming that the world is going to end, carry it around for oh about four years. Your whining is about the equivalent of just that.
You are absolutely dismissed loser.


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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 5:59 am
 


Chillaxe wrote:

CRETON years Huge thefts, Massive Hand outs to "business aquaintances", Ever stretching lies and on and on.

Hey, why dont you go paint yourself a nice little sign exclaiming that the world is going to end, carry it around for oh about four years. Your whining is about the equivalent of just that.
You are absolutely dismissed loser.


Hmmm...slip off of the meds much?


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PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2011 9:08 am
 


Where to even begin. First off I have to resist my temptation do deal with every point raised on here.

But here's a crack at a few.

Firstly NDP governments do overall statistically have a better track record of balanced budgets then those of other parties. Yes it is a smaller sample size which skews it a little. One thing is true though, Nova Scotia was the only province to have a balanced budget last year. Also the NDP typically has to work a LOT harder on the money file because of people's "perceptions". Now, the bob rae government.

A lot of people make fun of Peterson for calling that election in '90 and appearing arrogant for doing so. I think it was one of the shrewdest political moves I've ever seen. The government of the day knew the economy was headed in the tank. Can you imagine how bad it would have been for them if they'd had to call an election in 1992 or 1993? Think the Federal PC party. That government did some good things and some not so good things (like reneging on Public Auto Insurance). I was in high school during both the post Rae Day years and the early Mike Harris years, I can say as a student 2 weeks of March break was much preferable to the labour strife, strikes, work to rule campaigns and general upheaval that dominated the subsequent years. Was taking away public sector employees pay the wrong way to go? Perhaps, Perhaps not. I certainly think the WAY in which it was done was the wrong way to go. But people were compensated with time off for their loss in pay and anyone who complains about more time with family should perhaps take a second look at their lives.

We should also take a moment to remember what also happened on top of the recession in the 90's. Paul Martin also swooped down with the largest ever cutbacks to provincial transfers(like healthcare) and programs like 1/3 of capital costs for transit and wiping out the national housing program. That was quite a lot of added pressure at a very fragile economic time.

I'd also suggest having a look at the bottom line for Hydro Ontario during the Rae years. It was a mess when they came into power but by 95 their debt was dropping and things had been turned around until Mike Harris got at it. Lots of things got started that were never finished so its hard to know where some of them would have gone but I think there were many positives to go with the negatives.

Also lets not forget that Bob Rae was a Liberal before joining the NDP and went back to the Liberals giving perhaps a better indication of the directions he aspired to.

For my own part I joined the NDP the day after Mike Harris won government or from another point of view, the day after Bob Rae lost government.

So much to discuss and so little time...


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