[raydan]

2Cdo 2Cdo:

FieryVulpine FieryVulpine:

I might as well ask this question I had on my mind since this story came to my attention. Where do you guys stand on the Senate? With Justin Trudeau in keeping it or with Thomas Mulcair in scrapping it? I must admit that abolishing the Senate appears to be the more enticing of the two after the recent scandals.

The Senate is not a bad idea, it's just poorly set up. There should be term limits and an equal number of senators per province and the total number should be far lower than what it is presently.

I'd only put in people who have no political affiliation... but that might be difficult.
Maybe a multi-party committee could nominate them.

[andyt]

IF they're not elected, what's the point?

[2Cdo]

andyt andyt:

IF they're not elected, what's the point?

I would have no problems with that if everything that I said previously was also enacted.

[raydan]

2Cdo 2Cdo:

andyt andyt:

IF they're not elected, what's the point?

I would have no problems with that if everything that I said previously was also enacted.

Doesn't really seem to help on the USA side... those elected still have that damn party affiliation.

[andyt]

If they are elected, we'd have a US system, with the plusses and minuses that involves. If we were to go with that system, at least we should redistrict the federal ridings to truly reflect rep by pop - ie no more pandering to rural ridings and the smaller provinces.

[2Cdo]

raydan raydan:

2Cdo 2Cdo:

andyt andyt:

IF they're not elected, what's the point?

I would have no problems with that if everything that I said previously was also enacted.

Doesn't really seem to help on the USA side... those elected still have that damn party affiliation.

True, but with term limits we don't have them sitting around until their 70's collecting a check.

[Zipperfish]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

deflection time, is it?

Says the guy deflecting from the issue with a comment about deflection.

Ironic.

A typical "But...but....but...THE LIBERALS!!!!" response from the Conservatives. They are in trouble with their current Senate scandal and desperately looking for a way to blame the Liberals.

The Senate has been around a long time. The Reform-Conservatives were supposed to do soemthing about it.. They've proved unwilling or unable to do anything about it. In defence of teh Conservartveis, the answer is probably "unable." The Constitutional exercise required to abolish the Senate is simply beyond the power of the government of the day to undertake. We're stuck with it.

[2Cdo]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

The Senate has been around a long time. The Reform-Conservatives were supposed to do soemthing about it.. They've proved unwilling or unable to do anything about it. In defence of teh Conservartveis, the answer is probably "unable." The Constitutional exercise required to abolish the Senate is simply beyond the power of the government of the day to undertake. We're stuck with it.

If the Senate is beyond the power of government to change than the answer is not "probably" unable, just unable.

[Thanos]

Trudeau's the gift that keeps on giving with his now-established record of saying one thing in Quebec and another thing altogether in the ROC. For all the fear that his selection as leader has allegedly generated in the Tories, PM Harper must be rubbing his hands together in glee just waiting for the opportunity to corner Trudeau in a debate where he can't run away from his comments. Harper has nothing really invested in Quebec anymore so the more he can turn Trudeau into a Quebec supremacist mouthpiece the better it will be in shoring up and expanding Tory fortunes elsewhere.

[2Cdo]

Thanos Thanos:

Trudeau's the gift that keeps on giving with his now-established record of saying one thing in Quebec and another thing altogether in the ROC. For all the fear that his selection as leader has allegedly generated in the Tories, PM Harper must be rubbing his hands together in glee just waiting for the opportunity to corner Trudeau in a debate where he can't run away from his comments. Harper has nothing really invested in Quebec anymore so the more he can turn Trudeau into a Quebec supremacist mouthpiece the better it will be in shoring up and expanding Tory fortunes elsewhere.

Exactly. Better to just let him talk and keep these little gems for when the time is right.

[Zipperfish]

2Cdo 2Cdo:

If the Senate is beyond the power of government to change than the answer is not "probably" unable, just unable.

That's the scientist in me--always hedging my bet. If this government couldn't change the Senate, I don't know if any one can--let's put it that way.

I used to favour an elected Senate, but at this point I really question if we need one at all.

[OnTheIce]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

A typical "But...but....but...THE LIBERALS!!!!" response from the Conservatives. They are in trouble with their current Senate scandal and desperately looking for a way to blame the Liberals.

Like I said, it's ironic for you to deflect while blaming others for doing the same.

That said, I don't see this as a deflection at all. These are in regards to comments JT made on SATURDAY. They didn't go digging up stuff from the past to cause a deflection, they reacted to something published a few days prior.

Are they supposed to wait? Aren't the comments worth addressing? I know I find his comments to be really dumb coming from a guy that wants to run the Country. He's slowly talking himself out of the PM's office.

[Zipperfish]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Like I said, it's ironic for you to deflect while blaming others for doing the same.

That said, I don't see this as a deflection at all. These are in regards to comments JT made on SATURDAY. They didn't go digging up stuff from the past to cause a deflection, they reacted to something published a few days prior.

Are they supposed to wait? Aren't the comments worth addressing? I know I find his comments to be really dumb coming from a guy that wants to run the Country. He's slowly talking himself out of the PM's office.

I'm not laying any bets on the next election two years out, that's for sure. And of course you find his comments to be dumb--if I want to know what OTL thinks of anything, I just need to go read the headlines at Sun news.

Poorly worded, for sure. But the point was valid: If you live in Quebec, you'd be a fool to support abolition of the Senate. The NDP--which is relying on Quebec for a good chunk of its seats--is basically telling Quebecers to do something inimical to their own interests by calling for abolition of the Senate.

[OnTheIce]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

I'm not laying any bets on the next election two years out, that's for sure. And of course you find his comments to be dumb--if I want to know what OTL thinks of anything, I just need to go read the headlines at Sun news.

His comments are dumb because they are dumb. Whether you're on the right side of the fence or the left....it was dumb to say.

As for your comments about Sun news....You're becoming more partisan than the people you love to call partisan.

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

Poorly worded, for sure. But the point was valid: If you live in Quebec, you'd be a fool to support abolition of the Senate. The NDP--which is relying on Quebec for a good chunk of its seats--is basically telling Quebecers to do something inimical to their own interests by calling for abolition of the Senate.

The point is NOT valid when you're the leader of a Federal Party looking to become Prime Minister. That point escaped him....and you.

[Zipperfish]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

His comments are dumb because they are dumb. Whether you're on the right side of the fence or the left....it was dumb to say.

As for your comments about Sun news....You're becoming more partisan than the people you love to call partisan.

Oh, give it a rest. This coming froma guy who is and always has been a walking, talking ad for the Conservatvies. Don't try to foist your partisan hackery on me. Your record speaks for itself.