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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 10:12 am
 


FieryVulpine wrote:
You know what they say the road to Hell is paved with.


Bricks of Acapulco Gold?


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 10:29 am
 


I can only wish. :P


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 10:42 am
 


Yogi wrote:
I am notsuggesting that you or anyone else 'become a member' per se of any political party, but, by default, one does 'become a member' of whichever party they VOTE for. Thusly giving them the right to bitch, bellyache, piss&moan, about the way 'business is conducted'. So there you sit, in front of a computer, in your mommies' basement, trashing 'how business is done', whining "I'm not going to even try to do anything to change 'the way business is done'. (voting)

R=UP
I have always said that by not voting you have no right to complain about the results, even if the result is not what you wanted to see, at least you made your voice heard.

The huge % of people who don't vote could actually make a difference. On a municipal level it's really awful (was only around 25% turnout where I am in the election last fall).


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 10:45 am
 


Spoiling your ballot is a form of voting. If you actually vote for a candidate you don't actually support, what's the good of that? I've never spoiled my ballot because there was always some fringe candidate whom I didn't mind giving my vote if I didn't like any of the mainstream ones. Last election I voted strategically against the CPC, hoping to hold them to a minority. So I've voted, but I wasn't in there singing hossanas either.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 11:39 am
 


andyt wrote:
Spoiling your ballot is a form of voting. If you actually vote for a candidate you don't actually support, what's the good of that? I've never spoiled my ballot because there was always some fringe candidate whom I didn't mind giving my vote if I didn't like any of the mainstream ones. Last election I voted strategically against the CPC, hoping to hold them to a minority. So I've voted, but I wasn't in there singing hossanas either.

Same here. Only twice(fed or prov) have a I not voted for an independent or spoiled my ballot, usually by adding Don Cherry's name to it :lol:
I do take municipal elections more seriously though.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 12:53 pm
 


PublicAnimalNo9 wrote:
andyt wrote:
Spoiling your ballot is a form of voting. If you actually vote for a candidate you don't actually support, what's the good of that? I've never spoiled my ballot because there was always some fringe candidate whom I didn't mind giving my vote if I didn't like any of the mainstream ones. Last election I voted strategically against the CPC, hoping to hold them to a minority. So I've voted, but I wasn't in there singing hossanas either.

Same here. Only twice(fed or prov) have a I not voted for an independent or spoiled my ballot, usually by adding Don Cherry's name to it :lol:
I do take municipal elections more seriously though.


That isn't the way to 'spoil' a ballot. That just invalidates it. (Remember, legal 'English' isn't the same as spoken or written 'English' ;) )

To spoil a ballot, you take it unmarked to the Returning Offier and say "I return this in protset". They it gets counted as 'spoiled' not 'invalid'.

Only time I had to do that was when I showed up at the polls to learn we were 'electing' a senator. There was no prior notification of this, so I had no information on any candidates. So, I spoiled my ballot for Senate elections.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 2:17 pm
 


Yogi wrote:
I'm going to put this in such a simple context that even your simple mind will be able to grasp.

I am not a member of our local Stampede Assosciation. I don't attend any of their meetings. I have heard and seen enough of their way of 'doing business' which if I were a member I certainly wouldn't approve of. I am also smart enough to know that until/unless I become a member I would be well advised to keep my trap shut about such matters!

I am not suggesting that you or anyone else 'become a member' per se of any political party, but, by default, one does 'become a member' of whichever party they VOTE for. Thusly giving them the right to bitch, bellyache, piss&moan, about the way 'business is conducted'. So there you sit, in front of a computer, in your mommies' basement, trashing 'how business is done', whining "I'm not going to even try to do anything to change 'the way business is done'. (voting)
You are nothing more than a fucking hipocryte. Now fuck off and go play in the traffic!
This is honesty pure and unadulterated hallow crap. Personal insults as usual, nothing actually substantive or fucking persuading, just really silly bullshit insults again and again, like permanent sewage exploding from your face.

"The right to bitch", what horseshit. Where's that right, other than in your mind? Under fundamental freedoms?
Quote:
Fundamental freedoms
2. (1) Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms:
(a) freedom of conscience and religion;
(b) freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication;
(c) freedom of peaceful assembly; and
(d) freedom of association.
(2) All superseded if one does not fulfill the optional civil obligation to vote, which would give them the right to:
(a) bitch
(b) bellyache
(c) piss
(d) moan


You feel anarchists, followers of a political concept that has existed for centuries, should obey this retarded call for self-censorship and not display their ideas?

As if voting makes you more intelligent on any political matter, or actually gives you any stature with that party, other than cute personal imaginations. As if it gives you some secret line of news.

If I was inside the Stampede my entire life, my family has been, and all my friends have been, I'm a fucking MEMBER, whether I vote or not! I am a Canadian citizen. Just because I abstain from the political joke does not mean my ideas are invalid. Really, for god's sakes, find better reasons to shut down my arguments. The obscenely childish "You live in your mom's basement; you're argument is invalid." and such are not arguments, but just the most simple-minded of immature posturing. Like you're getting something done by saying that to me? Like that contributes to any political discussion, rather than just appearing to be a drunken half-assed cat-call at a stranger walking by.

I live in yet another decades-long Conservative strangle-hold. Uncontested. I doubt any of their opponents have apartments. Why does it honestly matter if I vote against such a wall, other than to satisfy the weird requirements that are really just fancies of the mind? Spoil my ballet? But why? Honestly god dammit tell me WHY rather than to earn the ability to explain a point of view in your hostile and irrational presence? It's just cute mental shit.

I should just tell people from now on that I DID vote. To me about the same gets accomplished whether I do it or lie about it - nothing. All I would vote for are obscenities, so what actual difference does it make whether or not I go and vote? My "vote" will never change society, because there won't be a party I dare put my name to or give the impression of my support and faith, and thus my vote would only be spoiled garbage, uncounted and void. Like my presence is helping Canada's broken democratic process keep pumping the way it should be. Come on.

In Russia there is apparently a common habit of ballot counters to take those cutesy passive aggressive spoiled ballots and to say "Hmm, clearly they wanted to vote for United Russia." Maybe I don't want to encourage the chance.

I never said I'm not going to try and change things. I said I don't think voting could ever satisfy that plan.

Rot in hell fuckface ♥


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 2:45 pm
 


Mr_Canada wrote:
sandorski wrote:
Mr_Canada wrote:
Murder?

Okay I disagree with that.

I'm sure if the Conservative party orchestrated the murder of some Liberal it would be considered just a bit more "serious"


How could the thwarting of the Will of the People not be more serious than Murder? This is the most fundamental principle upon which our system is based.

"Fundamental" must be one of the most abused words in all political discussion.

It's shitty. It's a whole different category to murder though. Completely different kinds of crime and abuses of people's rights. Not comparable.

Honestly it's really foolish to say this is "worse than murder". If someone I knew was murdered, I think I'd care more about that than this silly scandal of the week.


I am not "comparing" them, I'm saying it is worse.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 3:09 pm
 


sandorski wrote:
Mr_Canada wrote:
"Fundamental" must be one of the most abused words in all political discussion.

It's shitty. It's a whole different category to murder though. Completely different kinds of crime and abuses of people's rights. Not comparable.

Honestly it's really foolish to say this is "worse than murder". If someone I knew was murdered, I think I'd care more about that than this silly scandal of the week.


I am not "comparing" them, I'm saying it is worse.

I'd rather my country be betrayed than anyone I know be murdered. If we're going to put it on such a scale, those are my priorities, and that's my gauge for what is and what is not worse than murder.

As far as I'm concerned the only thing worse that murder is 2 murders.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 4:13 pm
 


Mr_Canada wrote:
I'm in favour of a new election.

I still won't vote though... :twisted:


In that case, you don't have the right to complain or run your mouth about anything political. It's people with your attitude that are responsible for the decline of the political system in this country. The younger generations are quick to complain and cry 'FOUL' on just about anything, but won't due anything about it, content to set Twitter and Facebook ablaze with their crap.

One of the most important rights as Canadians is the right to vote and have our voice heard. Does it always work out for the better? Does each and every voice get heard in their entirety? Probably not. The system has flaws, like any other. It's an imperfect system created by imperfect beings. Knowing this, I will vote each and every election, I don't care if I have to be wheeled from the hospital years from now to get my vote in. This is how democracy works. It's far from perfect, but too often taken for granted, while people in some countries FIGHT AND DIE for the right to vote in hopes they can help make a better would for their children and whatnot.

Capiche?

-J.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 4:17 pm
 


Strutz wrote:
Yogi wrote:
I am notsuggesting that you or anyone else 'become a member' per se of any political party, but, by default, one does 'become a member' of whichever party they VOTE for. Thusly giving them the right to bitch, bellyache, piss&moan, about the way 'business is conducted'. So there you sit, in front of a computer, in your mommies' basement, trashing 'how business is done', whining "I'm not going to even try to do anything to change 'the way business is done'. (voting)

R=UP
I have always said that by not voting you have no right to complain about the results, even if the result is not what you wanted to see, at least you made your voice heard.

The huge % of people who don't vote could actually make a difference. On a municipal level it's really awful (was only around 25% turnout where I am in the election last fall).



I agree with you both. Being a self professed political activist but not voting? WTF?

People who don't vote but piss and moan about the system have no credibility in my eyes.

The internet has spawned a generation of people who are activists on FaceBook or forums like this but don't actually get off their arse and even vote.

Lazy activists, all internet noise and no action. Hardly the stuff of revolutions.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 5:48 pm
 


sandorski wrote:
Gunnair wrote:
sandorski wrote:


That's a ridiculous point. We're talking of the fundamental principle our society and political system functions on. If this kind of tactic is to be accepted, then you might as well just install a Dictator, because the end result is the same.


I'll have to remember to cut and paste this on the next thread about a child getting murdered.

Wrong, you are not tired of being...


Cut/Paste all you want, it doesn't change a thing.

If there's no integrity in the Voting process, then there's no reason to Vote in the first place. It completely undermines our political system of making the People choose their Leadership.


A cynical point of view because the voting system sucks and may... may have lost some of its integrity is so much worse than some kiddie diddler strangling the victim.

Give your head a shake...


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 6:02 pm
 


Mr_Canada wrote:


"The right to bitch", what horseshit. Where's that right, other than in your mind? Under fundamental freedoms?
Quote:
Fundamental freedoms
2. (1) Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms:
(a) freedom of conscience and religion;
(b) freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication;
(c) freedom of peaceful assembly; and
(d) freedom of association.
(2) All superseded if one does not fulfill the optional civil obligation to vote, which would give them the right to:
(a) bitch
(b) bellyache
(c) piss
(d) moan


You feel anarchists, followers of a political concept that has existed for centuries, should obey this retarded call for self-censorship and not display their ideas?

As if voting makes you more intelligent on any political matter, or actually gives you any stature with that party, other than cute personal imaginations. As if it gives you some secret line of news.

If I was inside the Stampede my entire life, my family has been, and all my friends have been, I'm a fucking MEMBER, whether I vote or not! I am a Canadian citizen. Just because I abstain from the political joke does not mean my ideas are invalid. Really, for god's sakes, find better reasons to shut down my arguments. The obscenely childish "You live in your mom's basement; you're argument is invalid." and such are not arguments, but just the most simple-minded of immature posturing. Like you're getting something done by saying that to me? Like that contributes to any political discussion, rather than just appearing to be a drunken half-assed cat-call at a stranger walking by.

I live in yet another decades-long Conservative strangle-hold. Uncontested. I doubt any of their opponents have apartments. Why does it honestly matter if I vote against such a wall, other than to satisfy the weird requirements that are really just fancies of the mind? Spoil my ballet? But why? Honestly god dammit tell me WHY rather than to earn the ability to explain a point of view in your hostile and irrational presence? It's just cute mental shit.

I should just tell people from now on that I DID vote. To me about the same gets accomplished whether I do it or lie about it - nothing. All I would vote for are obscenities, so what actual difference does it make whether or not I go and vote? My "vote" will never change society, because there won't be a party I dare put my name to or give the impression of my support and faith, and thus my vote would only be spoiled garbage, uncounted and void. Like my presence is helping Canada's broken democratic process keep pumping the way it should be. Come on.

In Russia there is apparently a common habit of ballot counters to take those cutesy passive aggressive spoiled ballots and to say "Hmm, clearly they wanted to vote for United Russia." Maybe I don't want to encourage the chance.

I never said I'm not going to try and change things. I said I don't think voting could ever satisfy that plan.



Fact is (IMHO) voter turnout is down because of a combination of cynicism and laziness. Either Scape or Xerxes came up with the brilliant idea of lowering the voting age down to 14 for Municipal government, 16 for Provincial, and 18 for Federal. A graduated process where we introduce our you into politics at the local level and allow them to develop into active members at the Federal level.

Another fact is (IMHO) our political system is suffering greatly from that dwindling voter turnout because people are not involving themselves and not taking their political leadership to task. We have become a nation of lazy whiners who simply accept what the party and media feeds us without taking a hard look at what's happening. Political activism is now cynical tweets and whiny Facebook pages or even worse, aimless easily hijacked grass roots movements like OWS.

Ultimately, Mr. C, you'll be taken to task as an admitted and oddly proud non-voter when you stand tall and complain about the system and the parties after you opted out of your civic duty to become involved in the political process that manages nearly every aspect of your life. It's easy to fool yourself into thinking you're making a difference at the local OWS movement or on whatever Anarchist Facebook page you read on your newsfeed, but that's just plain lazy.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 6:33 pm
 


Gunnair wrote:
sandorski wrote:
Gunnair wrote:

I'll have to remember to cut and paste this on the next thread about a child getting murdered.

Wrong, you are not tired of being...


Cut/Paste all you want, it doesn't change a thing.

If there's no integrity in the Voting process, then there's no reason to Vote in the first place. It completely undermines our political system of making the People choose their Leadership.


A cynical point of view because the voting system sucks and may... may have lost some of its integrity is so much worse than some kiddie diddler strangling the victim.

Give your head a shake...


Ridiculous post is ridiculous. Congrats.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 6:48 pm
 


sandorski wrote:
Gunnair wrote:
sandorski wrote:


Cut/Paste all you want, it doesn't change a thing.

If there's no integrity in the Voting process, then there's no reason to Vote in the first place. It completely undermines our political system of making the People choose their Leadership.


A cynical point of view because the voting system sucks and may... may have lost some of its integrity is so much worse than some kiddie diddler strangling the victim.

Give your head a shake...


Ridiculous post is ridiculous. Congrats.


Thanks.

Next time un-muffle your argument by pulling your head out of your ass.

Murder ain't as bad as issues of voting integrity. Yep, you're an idiot.


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