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PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2015 9:10 am
 


I saw an interview with Stephen Harper. He argued some want to go back into deficit. He pointed out no matter how much stimulus money they spent, it wasn't enough. And in the 1990s the government had to make massive cuts to program spending that hurt, and massive tax hikes, to get out of deficit. So going back into deficit now would be a very bad idea.

Well... That's partially correct. Business becomes addicted to government handouts faster than crack. You don't want business to become dependant on taxpayer's money. And the Chrétien/Martin Liberals had to make massive cuts to spending in order to get out of deficit. But massive tax hikes? That was Mulroney's Conservatives: 1984-1993. Most of the massive tax hikes were in the 1980s. Liberals didn't increase taxes, they eliminated the deficit by cutting spending. Only through cuts. Of course they didn't cut Mulroney's massive tax hikes until AFTER the deficit was slain.

When I was in high school in the late 1970s, and university in the early 1980s, voters were extremely concerned with the exponentially rising deficit. And I said deficit, not debt. They knew taxpayers would be required to pay all that debt. And it didn't matter if Liberals or Conservatives were elected, it was the same problem. Then in 1984 along came a businessman who sought the leadership of the Conservative party. He tried for the leadership before but failed. In 1984 he broke every rule he could get away with, bent any rule he couldn't outright break, and scammed his way to become leader of the Conservative party. Voters at the time did notice, but treated it as an internal party problem; not their problem. When the election came later that same year, he campaigned on a platform to: eliminate the deficit, reduce the debt, and reduce taxes. This would be accomplished by cutting government spending, and reducing the number of individuals hired in the federal civil service. The voters responded by saying OUR SAVIOUR HAS ARRIVED! And gave him the largest majority ever in Canadian history. As a proportion of MPs in the House of Commons, a majority that large had occurred twice before, but the last was in the 1950s, a generation before, so people forgot a majority that large was possible. And the total number of MPs in the House had increased, so in terms of shear numbers of MPs it was the largest majority ever.

Voters hoped he would be honest since he wasn't a career politician. Unfortunately for Canadians, he proved to be the biggest liar of all. He increase government spending, and increased the number of individuals in the federal civil service. He increased the deficit, and more than tripled the debt.

My favourite science fiction author once quoted a scientist who said "Any opinion, no matter how expert, is only opinion unless it's expressed in numbers". So numbers. On election day 1984 the deficit was $38 billion, on election day 1993 it was $42 billion. On election day 1984 the debt was $135.6 billion. On election day 1993 it was $458.75 billion. (Source: http://www.debtclock.ca/)

Today we have Stephen Harper. He claims to believe in cutting taxes, reducing spending, and reducing the size of government. But he drastically increased spending, increased the number of individuals in the federal civil service, ran us back into deficit, and increased the debt. Again numbers...

In the May 2006 budget, Jim Flaherty said the "status quo" surplus for fiscal year 2005/06 was $17.4 billion. That means that's what the surplus would have been if Conservatives hadn't messed with it. That budget promised to reduce the deficit to $8.0 billion; not by reducing taxes, but simply by increasing spending. Fiscal year end for the federal government is March 31st, so "fiscal year 2005/06" means April 1 2005 - March 31 2006. The election was January 23 2006, ministers sworn in February 6 2006, so the Conservatives were only in power for the last 2 months of that fiscal year. According to the Auditor General's report (and "actual" figures published in the 2007 budget), spending for the 2005/06 fiscal year was $175.2 billion. In the 2005 budget (last Liberal budget) spending for that year was $161.3 billion. That means Conservatives increase spending by $13.9 billion in the first 2 months alone. Canadians worked harder and paid more in taxes than anyone expected, so the surplus ended up at $13.2 billion. Not due to Conservative restraint, but because Canadians paid more taxes.

The last Liberal budget was 2005. That budget projected spending to the 2009/10 fiscal year. Let's compare to Conservative actual spending.
Year Liberal Conservative Increase
2005/06: $161.3B $175.2B $13.9B
2006/07: $169.5B $188.3B $18.8B
2007/08: $177.9B $199.5B $21.6B
2008/09: $185.8B $207.9B $22.1B
2009/10: $194.5B $244.8B $50.3B

The 2005 budget didn't project spending any further than that. So let's take spending for the 2005/06 fiscal year from the 2005 budget, apply inflation to this year, then compare to this year's budget. You can see from the above table that it was $161.3 billion. Using the inflation calculator from the Bank of Canada website to go from 2005 to 2015, that works out to $191.93 billion. But spending in this year's budget is $263.2 billion, or $71.27 billion more.

On March 17, 2011, the Parliamentary budget officer released a report. That date was important because on that date the debt equalled it's previous all-time high. Harper Conservatives had completely undone all the hard work the Chrétien/Martin Liberals had done to reduce the debt. That report also stated the number of federal civil servants was 14% greater than it was on election day 2006.

And the deficit means each day that passes increases the debt to a new all-time high. Joe Oliver promised a $1.4 billion surplus for this year, but the current Parliamentary Budget Officer stated it's more likely we will have a $1 billion deficit this year.

Conservatives claim they believe in reduce spending, but in reality they're spending like the proverbial drunken sailor.

Conservatives claim they reduced taxes. Liberals introduced a cut to personal income taxes in their November 2005 fiscal update. The lowest income bracket was cut from 15.5% to 15.0%. Conservatives and NDP voted against the fiscal update, that's what caused the election. Since the fiscal update was voted down, that tax cut didn't happen. A year later the Conservatives re-introduced that same tax cut, taking effect January 1 2007. So they cancelled a Liberal tax cut, then brought it back. That isn't a tax cut; we would have had that in 2006 if Liberals were elected. I've heard some people claim it doesn't count because the way they cancelled that tax cut, but I don't care what technically they pull. They cancelled a Liberal tax cut, then brought it back, then tried to take credit for it.

Personal income tax hasn't been cut since. Corporate tax has been. Liberals passed a law in 2005 to abolish corporate capital tax. The effective date was after election day 2006, so Conservatives have tried to take credit for it. But they didn't do it, Liberals did. Liberals also stated their intent to abolish corporate surtax. But they were in the process of getting rid of corporate capital tax; one at a time. Conservatives did get rid of it. But Conservatives didn't stop there. Corporate income tax was 21% on election day 2006. Today it's 15%. They cut corporate taxes, not taxes that you and I pay.

The lowest income bracket for personal income tax is 15%. Corporate income tax is now 15%. So a multi-billion dollar corporation now pays income tax at the same rate as an individual below the poverty line. Middle class Canadians pay more. That's just wrong.

Mulroney promised to reduce spending, reduce the federal civil service, and reduce taxes. He did the opposite. Harper is claiming to reduce spending, reduce the federal civil service, and reduce taxes. He hasn't increased personal taxes (yet) but hasn't cut them. Every other claim he has done the opposite. If interest rates start increasing like they did in the 1980s, you can bet Harper will increase personal taxes, not corporate. I don't see how Harper is any different than Mulroney.


Last edited by Winnipegger on Thu Aug 20, 2015 12:16 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2015 9:11 am
 


I already have the typewriter medal. :wink:


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2015 9:13 am
 


Mulroney: Airbus scandal
Harper: Senate scandal


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2015 9:27 am
 


martin14 martin14:
Tyler_1 Tyler_1:
$1:
Stephen Harper & party: My views and opinions - MERGED

[BB]



I agree.. containment time.

quarantine, then sterilize. :lol:


it ruins my art.

It's like splashing paint on the magna carta

it's like blacking out the Chart of Rights and Freedoms

but hey it's Kenner It's fun


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2015 9:32 am
 


Winnipegger Winnipegger:
Mulroney: Airbus scandal
Harper: Senate scandal


you missed Chretien in that list...


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2015 9:42 am
 


But I think it is do to someone with the power to muzzle the look, that the titles portray!

The titles are hurting "IT's" political bent, "IT" can't take reading them about "IT'S" beloved "C"logo party and the absolute truth that hurts whoever did this.

I suspect the "C" logo goes unnoticed that it has been rearranged into "PURE HARPERISM" leaving this person with" forum power" brainwashed and disturbed by the titles. Which were glaring truths in that person's face and so they did this.

it's a form of censorship in the worse order.

it shows a meanness.. a childish it's my football and i can make you play with it how I want you to.

it cheapens the site drastically and makes it look like it's in the hands of uber partisanship ..allow the Right to flourish and muzzle the truth from whoever points out the crimes and blunders of HARPERISM and the take over and banishment of a once Noble Conservative Party.

Shame Shame Shame on you whoever did this.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2015 9:54 am
 


up the meds, or drink more both have a pleasing affect. Lets not get out of control the PMO's office has long been criticized for having too much power, that goes back decades.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2015 10:26 am
 


Winnipegger Winnipegger:
Today we have Stephen Harper. He claims to believe in cutting taxes, reducing spending, and reducing the size of government. But he drastically increased spending, increased the number of individuals in the federal civil service, ran us back into deficit, and increased the debt. Again numbers...



The size of the federal civil service has gone from 0.82% of the Cdn population in 2008, to 0.73% in 2014.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_Service_of_Canada#Size_and_distribution


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2015 10:47 am
 


andyt andyt:
BC Liberal Party is certainly not tied to the hip of Liberal Party of Canada

It was just the renaming of the Socreds after they imploded under Grace.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2015 10:50 am
 


I'm interested in what Count Lothian thinks of Harper. Is he for him or against him? It's difficult to tell.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2015 10:51 am
 


martin14 martin14:
Tyler_1 Tyler_1:
$1:
Stephen Harper & party: My views and opinions - MERGED

[BB]



I agree.. containment time.

quarantine, then sterilize. :lol:

It's like finally getting that floater to flush.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2015 11:07 am
 


Has there ever been a party in power that didn't do something scandalous or at least something (or things) that pissed off enough people to swing the vote the other way the next opportunity they got? Then back again every term or two. And so on and so on... :roll:

They all do the same shit, different coloured tie is all.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2015 11:10 am
 


The Kool aid drinkers don't see it that way.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2015 12:31 pm
 


Strutz Strutz:
Has there ever been a party in power that didn't do something scandalous or at least something (or things) that pissed off enough people to swing the vote the other way the next opportunity they got? Then back again every term or two. And so on and so on... :roll:

They all do the same shit, different coloured tie is all.

Once you accept the lowest common denominator in your government , all is lost .

This concept has been rehashed over and over, that being all governments all are scandalous.

I will never accept this from any of the parties. And will bust crime!!!!

The problem is a right wing government is supposed to be beyond reproach.

Once the right wing gives into what they think is their only game in town with a "C" logo, we have this nightmare being played out in the courts.

This is only the beginning we still have other senators being brought into courts. If Harper loses he loses his get of trial free card and could be brought in, during the Pamela Whalen fun, not to mention the crown talked about the duffy trial in december and what was to come then.


In any case the right is seeing their only game in town for what it is, and tactics like merging all of His Illustrious's Art into one thread and omitting the titles is just a show of how deep the desperation is on the Right.


The right might not have had absolute power with a mad dog like REformite Harper at the helm, if they did not merge ,but at least there was a semblance of choice when the Conservative party was entirely Conservative Party People.

The True Conservative Party could have risen from the ashes , the reform nut jobs gone the way of Social Credit in Quebec .


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2015 12:36 pm
 


ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:
The Kool aid drinkers don't see it that way.

Nice cliche ,but unfortunately the only people really gulping down the Kool Aid are the right wing hanger on 'ers.

Their only game in town is not right wing but a fascist dictator who's only game was electioneering constantly, mostly with tax dollars ,to stay in power.

They know it ...it hurts.... and all you have to do is watch the dance being played out here.


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