[Newsbot]

Filibuster Cartoon
Title: Apologies for all (click to view)
Date: June 15, 2008
Prime Minister Harper gave a historic apologize in the Canadian parliament last week to Canada's aboriginal population, apologizing to them for a now long-defunct government program known as "residential schools."

From the 19th Century to the 1950's, Native Canadian children were routinely sent to special boarding schools in which they were aggressive Christianized and assimilated, in an effort to dissolve Native culture and traditions for future generations. Along with being disgustingly heavy-handed, these schools have also earned a reputation of being hotbeds of physical, emotional, and even sexual abuse.

In 2005 the Canadian government created an extremely generous compensation package for former students of residential schools, with reparations starting at $10,000 per student. This program, and Harper's subsequent apology, have both been controversial as they dredge up the age-old question: just how much responsibility do future generations have to address the crimes of the past?

[commonsense]

I point you to this in showing how much the Harper and his conservatives believed in that apology.

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=ws2Jc5692TY

And all the B.S. that some conservatives say about how he is a loose cannon, and Harpey was aghast at his comments... well, just that, B.S.

The Federal Tories have such tightly controlled messaging, it is simply unbelievable that he did not know what the apology was about, and how his comments and views would be interpreted.


As for what YOU said (JJ), 1. The last residential school closed in 1996, not the 1950's, and 2. $10,000 per person for attempting to forcably assimilate an entire nation... well, West Germany paid 3 billion marks to Jews as reparations for the holocaust. That was in the late 1940's and early 1950's. Roughly accounting for inflation that's about 27 billion marks.


As for paying future generations paying for the sins of the past, well the debt that Mulroney created is still being paid for today. Pollution generated by all those gas guzzling SUV's that Albertans love to drive is creating problems that our grand children's grand children will still be dealing with. I think, in the big scheme of things, this is a pretty small price to pay.

As for the question (raised by Mr. Poilievre) about whether we should be giving that money to the First Nations people... he may have a point. Why doesn't he work to help build that school closed because of an oil leak in Northern Ontario. Clean water would be nice on about 60% of federally controlled and operated Reserves. Hell, even re-establishing the court challenges program (cut within months of Harper taking power) would assist them because they could mount a proper law suit against the government.


Your comic was very telling and appropriate. Just like Santa Clause, Harper's apology was a fantasy. A glibber in the eye's of the First Nations people which ultimately will mean nothing. You can apologize 'till the cows come home, but if you don't change your actions and help to rectify the situation, they are just meaningless words.

[fire_i]

Quote:

just how much responsibility do future generations have to address the crimes of the past?

Well, the thing here is that the state is what pays reparation for the past here, and in itself, it is something intemporal. Yes, it ends up today's generations pay for what the previous ones have done, but not directly - only through the state : the same which, decades earlier, had created the problem.

It... sucks when things like that happen, but I have no doubt it's fairer to pay back.

[RUEZ]

commonsense wrote:

Pollution generated by all those gas guzzling SUV's that Albertans love to drive is creating problems that our grand children's grand children will still be dealing with.

I've lived in Alberta and BC and they probably have the same amount of SUV's. I'd guess Ontario is comparable also. Why single out Alberta? Oh right, it's fashionable now.

[CanadianJeff]

Frankly this has been one of the most sincere, wonderfull, heart felt things I've ever seen a PM do in a long time.

Frankly he's proven that he's trying to break away from simply treating the problem by throwing tons of money into social safety nets for the native community and instead imbraced a method of trying to better understand thier culture and concerns.

It's a big step towards improving the often "thrid world" conditions that exsist on many reserves and making peace with the First nations.

It's one of those moments that makes me extremely proud to be Canadaian.

[Psudo]

Quote:

even re-establishing the court challenges program (cut within months of Harper taking power) would assist them because they could mount a proper law suit against the government.

I'm under the impression that it's impossible for people to sue to US Government. Denying people the chance to sue the Canadian government seems irrelevant to me, partially for that reason. Also, I think, partially because I don't see how money or an apology erases bad behavior. How much money makes sexual abuse go away? It's a nonsense question.

An apology is inherently an impotent attempt to comfort. I'm sorry I hit your dog with my car. I want you to understand it was unintentional and I feel bad. Even if I believe every word, your dog's still dead and I can't make it better.

The important thing is the future behavior. Not doing the bad, bad thing anymore until it's a habit, a lifestyle, an unalterable trait. But that takes time. An apology is, at best, a promise to pursue that path. It cannot be the path itself.

[CanadianJeff]

No but being able to admit your wrong and recognizing the problem is always a necessary step towards solving the problem. That's why the apology is such a big deal. It's a change from as you said throwing money at the problem to make the sexual abuse go away towards working with the community and bonding with them in an effort towards better understanding.

[EmperorLiam]

"all those gas guzzling SUV's"

Uhhhh.... Alberta isn't known for SUV's.... its known for TRUCKS. Seriously, at least 1/2 the vehicles are super duty trucks with no load and a single woman driver and they guzzle gas/diesel far worse than SUV's.

[Pseudonym]

One thing that has always confused me is the preference for heavy duty trucks when you don't need them for anything. I live on a farm and justify mine's existence by hauling around lumber and hay bales. They are cumbersome to drive and not particular beautiful. Why buy them?

[Freakinoldguy]

Pseudonym wrote:

One thing that has always confused me is the preference for heavy duty trucks when you don't need them for anything. I live on a farm and justify mine's existence by hauling around lumber and hay bales. They are cumbersome to drive and not particular beautiful. Why buy them?

After observing numerous large newer truck and suv drivers, who by in far are old white guys and small white women who live in cities, I can't help but get the feeling that what they drive is either an extension of their male sexuality or a symbol attempting to make up for the lack of it.

Most of these vehicles have never hauled anything larger than a plant from Art Knapp's and if the truck or suv has ever been off road it was through driver error and not an attempt to actually see if the 4 wheel drive worked.

[Psudo]

Maybe my area is different, but most of the "testostrucks" I see are driven by actual construction workers and their families.

Maybe the difference is that I know them well enough to identify when the petite lady driving the Dodge Cummins Turbo Diesel is the construction worker's wife, having met and worked alongside the construction worker when she visited him.

[CanadianJeff]

It's funny but in Saskatchewan (or at least in Saskatoon and Regina) there is an amazing lack of trucks and SUVs.

It's all smaller family cars and minivans.

Maybe "trucktosterone" is a chemical indictive to various geographical regions?

[Freakinoldguy]

Psudo wrote:

Maybe my area is different, but most of the "testostrucks" I see are driven by actual construction workers and their families.

Maybe the difference is that I know them well enough to identify when the petite lady driving the Dodge Cummins Turbo Diesel is the construction worker's wife, having met and worked alongside the construction worker when she visited him.

Not here. Construction workers drive trucks but they're usually 10 years or older, only the foremen and bosses drive the new big rigs and that's likely because it's a tax write off.

Now don't get me wrong, having a truck is one of the best investments a person can make, but to get a return on the investment you've gotta use it. It isn't your parents oldsmobile, so why treat it like one.

I guess I should mention I have a truck. It's an oldie but a goodie, a little rusty but always trusty, it's an 1988 dodge dakota short box 4X4 and I wouldn't trade it for any of the new uber trucks you see on the road today.

[Tman1]

CanadianJeff wrote:

It's funny but in Saskatchewan (or at least in Saskatoon and Regina) there is an amazing lack of trucks and SUVs.

It's all smaller family cars and minivans.

Maybe "trucktosterone" is a chemical indictive to various geographical regions?

You're joking right? There's lots of trucks in Saskatoon and eleswhere. I mean....its Saskatchewan.....really now.

[commonsense]

Psudo wrote:

I'm under the impression that it's impossible for people to sue to US Government. Denying people the chance to sue the Canadian government seems irrelevant to me, partially for that reason. Also, I think, partially because I don't see how money or an apology erases bad behavior. How much money makes sexual abuse go away? It's a nonsense question.

The money is not for the sexual abuse, the money isn't some sort of punitive damage. It's to alleviate the problems CAUSED by the sexual abuse.

If you're abused, 1. you're likely to abuse your self, 2. you're likely not able to be as productive for society as if you were undamaged (for lack of a better word).

The money (in theory anyways) is supposed to go to correct the problems created by said abuse.

Ultimately, we can all agree, we would rather have First Nations people being fully integrated, productive members of society. The Kelowna Accord was supposed to help with that, but the Harper government killed it.

Sure, Chuck Strahl has done some things to help First Nations people, but any government in power would have done them. Overall, I think the conservatives have not advanced that file. Look at the Caledonia occupation, stalled because of Federal Government unwillingness to negotiate. Or Desoronto. Or that school in Northern Ontario which was shut down due to a fuel leak. There are countless examples of stalled negotiation, and no effort to revive them.



As for SUV's, you're right, Alberta is more renowned for Trucks, not SUV's, I apologize. Not to say that here in Ontario we don't have out fair share of yokel red neck wannabes driving Ford F-450 duelies that haven't seen a pebble let alone a dirt road, but per capita, I think there are far more of them in the west then the rest.