[CKASlacker]

DrCaleb wrote:

I still chuckle; the moment the government was defeated, the commentators were saying that the Conservatives will try to make it look like they were defeated based on the budget, which was never voted on. The reason they gave that it distracts from Minister Oda's and the Governments' findings of contempt of Parliament.

You've made this point a few times now on different threads. If this is really the killer issue, why isn't Iggy and the Libs making a bigger point of it to discredit Harper? Maybe they don't consider it that big a deal?

You're technically correct, but I don't think the other parties care too much about it - hence the near silence on the issue.

Voting on a budget before you intend on non-confidencing the minority government seems a waste of time -- even for MP's.

edit: The other parties are making a big deal out of some G8/G20 spending on a local member's riding today. I would expect to hear more about it during the debate. Weirdly enough, the Auditor General can't release the full report without a sitting parliament!

[sandorski]

BartSimpson wrote:

sandorski wrote:

Fail.

I agree. One party rule is a failure.

Godwin would be proud/embarrassed by you.

True Story

[DanSC]

sandorski wrote:

BartSimpson wrote:

sandorski wrote:

I prefer the Canadian System. A Majority would avoid these issues.

Our system works fine for us in that it prevents what's called 'a tyranny of the majority'.

More or less, whoever is in the minority retains some power and some voice in our system as a 'check and balance' on the excesses of majority. While the Democrats might bitch and whine about that now, they had no problem with it when they were in the minority a few years ago.

You're mixing up terms. There's no Tyranny in a Majority Government. There's just a Working Government that has the balls to deal with issues.

Tell that to the Black people who had to live under Jim Crow laws.

[Murray_Smith]

sandorski wrote:

Your System doesn't work near as well as you think it does.

The problem with this sentence is that when it's not a case of the pot calling the kettle black, it is utterly false.

Therefore, you are either a liar or a hypocrite.

[sandorski]

Murray_Smith wrote:

sandorski wrote:

Your System doesn't work near as well as you think it does.

The problem with this sentence is that when it's not a case of the pot calling the kettle black, it is utterly false.

Therefore, you are either a liar or a hypocrite.

Wut?

[Khar]

andyt wrote:

DrCaleb wrote:

I still chuckle; the moment the government was defeated, the commentators were saying that the Conservatives will try to make it look like they were defeated based on the budget, which was never voted on. The reason they gave that it distracts from Minister Oda's and the Governments' findings of contempt of Parliament.

Their prognosticating abilities were dead on. "Look! Over there! See! Ooooo shiny! No contempt for the Parliamentary process and the citizens of Canada here! The big bad opposition defeated the budget! Yeeeess!"

What makes my jaw drop is how the media and opposition falls for it. Harper calls the tune and they all dance to it.

I expected the Conservatives to make it about the budget, and try to cover up the parliamentary contempt problems. Just like I expected the Liberal party to try and play down the fact that they waited until right before the budget would be revealed for vote about contempt of parliament.

It was an awfully wonky road, getting to this election. The commentators at the time were watching and wondering what would happen first -- would Ignatieff bringh down the government on the contempt of parliament charge, or would he be forced to support what appeared to be a sound budget? To many, it seems that the reason the contempt of parliament charge was even brought up was so that the Liberals could avoid dealing with a budget proposal they could not reject without excessive scorn and ridicule.

There was a lot of speculation and discussion on the budget and how avoiding it was a tactic on the part of the Liberals, and ipso facto was a decision on the budget by not allowing it to be brought forward into parliament. That both the opposition and the media have come forward to "play to Harper's tune" says a lot about the realities of the situation, and how much the budget may actually have played a role. Perhaps this all being about the budget is hitting a little closer to home than otherwise thought?

This is just what I've read, however. Personally, I find the situation a rather good way of seeing how parties tend to handle the media. The Conservatives avoid discussion and details with the media where possible, giving only what they feel like giving, while the Liberals attempt to manipulate media opinion in a favourable direction. The Bloc and NDP will use this time to get free access to the media to get their message out there, desperate to discuss any topic to get the limelight, and the Greens will use it to try and appear relevant by announcing their outrage about various issues, trying to form grassroot support.

[DrCaleb]

CKASlacker wrote:

DrCaleb wrote:

I still chuckle; the moment the government was defeated, the commentators were saying that the Conservatives will try to make it look like they were defeated based on the budget, which was never voted on. The reason they gave that it distracts from Minister Oda's and the Governments' findings of contempt of Parliament.

You've made this point a few times now on different threads. If this is really the killer issue, why isn't Iggy and the Libs making a bigger point of it to discredit Harper? Maybe they don't consider it that big a deal?

You're technically correct, but I don't think the other parties care too much about it - hence the near silence on the issue.

I don't like to repeat myself, but as long as the "the government fell because of the budget" shtick keeps rearing it's head, I feel I need to add the truth just to maintain the balance of perspective.

I don't know why they aren't flogging it. Everyone did it to the Liberals with their AdScam, HRDC and slush fund scandals. Fair is fair.

[bootlegga]

andyt wrote:

What makes my jaw drop is how the media and opposition falls for it. Harper calls the tune and they all dance to it.

And yet at the same time, many conservative supporters still complain that the media has a left wing bias...

[Taospark]

DanSC wrote:

sandorski wrote:

BartSimpson wrote:

Our system works fine for us in that it prevents what's called 'a tyranny of the majority'.

More or less, whoever is in the minority retains some power and some voice in our system as a 'check and balance' on the excesses of majority. While the Democrats might bitch and whine about that now, they had no problem with it when they were in the minority a few years ago.

You're mixing up terms. There's no Tyranny in a Majority Government. There's just a Working Government that has the balls to deal with issues.

Tell that to the Black people who had to live under Jim Crow laws.

There's certainly a correlation between tyranny of the majority and a majority government that can determine policy unopposed in a legislature. Just imagine what would have happened had Churchill stayed in power after 1945 or consider the excesses of the French Revolution.