[EyeBrock]

Yep,

That region is looking increasingly like the Balkans in 1913.

[fire_i]

Makes me wonder how the late Ottoman Empire could avoid implosion for so long.

[ShepherdsDog]

Quote:

Makes me wonder how the late Ottoman Empire could avoid implosion for so long.

They demonstrated to those who would challenge their order that they were nastier than anyone else if provoked. They didn't walk softly and the big sticks they carried had spikes in them.

[kenmore]

the whole middle east is fucked up... there never will be peace there.. there is too much religous bigotry ... they continue to kill in the name of religion... why.... ?

[sasquatch2]

Sheoherdsdog

Quote:

Quote:

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Makes me wonder how the late Ottoman Empire could avoid implosion for so long.

They demonstrated to those who would challenge their order that they were nastier than anyone else if provoked. They didn't walk softly and the big sticks they carried had spikes in them.

Pretty much, Although brutal it was effective and is perhaps the only real solution. Indeed most of the ME and Balkan instability is a result of the vacuum created by their removal. Perhaps it is the Wests fault at Versaille but the Ottoman Empire was creaking anyway......nothing lasts forever.

The Ottomans do make a fascinating read.

[sasquatch2]

Perhaps this is God's will...and he does move in strange ways....

Bhutto was no angel and if she had lived and ruled Pakistan could have been the undoing of us all....she was only human.

JFK was assassinated and in death was elevated far beyond his womanizing, inept administration and dangerous foreign policy----his bumbling nearly caused WW3 during the Cuban crisis. In death he became an icon which he could only aspire to in real life.

Bhutto in death will be an icon/ideal, likely totally unlike the living Bhutto, that could be Pakistan's salvation. For the Taliban and Al Qaida, she is now a dangerous idea that will be difficult to fight....

[JustKate]

tritium wrote:

Kjorteo wrote:

...where they just want to appear big, receive attention, and thus scare people.

Al-Qaeda was successful in that, right? Attacking and murdering women and children.

More like a bunch of cowards hiding in caves and shanty towns.

Also, as far as General Pervez Musharraf being a friend of the U.S. on fighting terrorism.

Osama Bin Laden is worth more to Musharraf alive then dead or captured, so far to the tune of 100 million dollars and the money still keeps on pouring in.

That whole region is a tinder box that is about to explode in the face of the "west." Canada included.

2008 W.W.III

Let`s talk Options:


We could pull out of the ME and basically wall up North America. When we close the door, say to others, touch us and you`re all dead.

OR

We could invade their countries MORE (like our countries have been invaded with people escaping their lands, home)......think about what I just said. We are multi-culture. I`m not talking military! More of us go there and support. We`d WIN hands down in time. That`s a given. I know this sounds crazy. It`s easy for us to say `Fuck that``. Why would I, you do that. Well, my answer is, kids are involved and their future. Our`s and their`s.

Remember Regan saying `TAKE DOWN THAT WALL!!!`

[CanadianJeff]

It won't work that way sadly. This is not a typical war of force or numbers.

This is a war of one ideal that belongs in the current age and a religous ideal that belongs in the dark ages. Very few middle eastern countries belive in the modern age. It is a land in which the most devoted to the cause rule becuase devotion and religious beliefs are found untouchable.

In the ME you do not question the rule of the Muslim faith. If you kill for it, kill by it real or as a pretense to rule a country it's unquestioned becuase of faith.

We are starting to revert to that same tradgedy in north america. It's becoming a norm to vote for a party if your faith falls along certain lines. I belive JJ has done a few comics on how the GOP minipulates Christians and vice versa. The two have become intertwined.

That's the problem with the middle east. Reason is not a religion. To live by reason there is to die.

[sasquatch2]

All bets are off.

Al Qaida/Taliban has now denied responsibility... They accuse it was a government assassination.

Regardless of what we think a volatile mass believes this. Personally I doubt that the government can inspire an agent to commit a suicide attack...but then this is Pakistan.

At this distance, it would be logical to blame the Al Qaida/Taliban axis in that it appears they have the access to suicide bombers, may have infiltrated the security services and logically seek a civil war.

Bhutto is the anti-thesis of the Taliban mentality.....having an EDUCATED, moderate WOMAN as president is totally unacceptable. Regardless the agent who did the suicide attack was implacably Taliban oriented.

Musharrif for the most part appears to command the military but has problems with his intelligence service.

[CanadianJeff]

and where did you get the info that "the agent who did the suicide attack was implacably Taliban oriented."

You will forgive me if i'm a bit careful about jumping on the terrorism bandwagon.

[sasquatch2]

Perhaps it is that the alternate explaination is that an individual is about to commit suicide to support a petty dictator (totally lacking in charisma) is unrealistic. That suicidal behaviour is standard with the Al Qaida/Taliban Axis. Simple logic.

[Kjorteo]

Really, all it takes is one lunatic to assassinate someone. Misogyny and other radical Muslim concepts are popular in the area--if they weren't, then no one would worry that Bhuto's death could destabilize anything, as there wouldn't be any factions like that to try and take advantage. The Taliban/al-Qaeda/whatever extremist faction doesn't have to launch an official coordinated strike to kill someone when their teachings hold enough sway that someone out there likes what they hear and is just crazy enough to do it.

Think back to Yitzhak Rabin and Anwar Sadat--after working for peace between Egypt and Israel, both of them were assassinated within six months of each other, each by radicals from their own countries who simply didn't want that peace, hated the other side, and hated their own respective leaders for trying to make peace with the enemy.

In other news, I see JJ updated the caption for this cartoon (it just said "Developing..." when I first saw and went to comment on it.) I must say, I really like how he sums it up now.

[sasquatch2]

Tha assassin was motivated not by pluralistic, democratic ideals but by religious extremism.

The question remains was he directed from afar, or merely acting on opportunity. Musharriff involvement would be difficult to conceal....note many police were killed in the attack and security was high. Suicide attackers are extremely difficult to counter and total safety against them is possibly impossible in any society.

[WDHIII]

Just ran across this...... New Footage Released .... over at LiveLeak.

not overly graphic but...

[ShepherdsDog]

Dying due to gun shots vs. dying as a result of the blast......does it really matter?