[Newsbot]

<strong>Filibuster Cartoon</strong>
<strong>Title: </strong> <a href="http://www.filibustercartoons.com/archive.php?id=20080206" target="_blank">Eating their own</a> (click to view)
<strong>Date: </strong> February 06, 2008

The sheer, vicious, hatred shown towards John McCain (who is now the GOP nominee apparent, following Romney\'s post Super Tuesday drop-out) by some elements of the American right really does shock me. And honestly, I feel like I am missing something. <br> <br>McCain is not, as Ann Coulter says in her latest column, \"a liberal\" by objective standard, and certainly not a liberal when measured against \"the litmus test issues of our time.\" He is pro-life, extremely pro-gun, anti-gay marriage, and extremely pro-war. He is only \"liberal\" on a handful of minor issues that I have a hard time believing actually matter to anyone on the political right, such as campaign finance reform. <br> <br>And yet the new faddish thing to do if you’re a conservative is to go around saying that you will never in a million years vote for the man, or even vote for Hillary or Obama instead. <br> <br>What\'s the true reason for all the McCain hate? Post on my forum and let\'s talk. <br>

[ManifestDestiny]

Two words ILEAGAL IMMIGRATION. and his support for amnesty.

[martin14]

well, he changed his stance a bit on immigration, and he will now have

a long time to build himself, while the Dems could bicker

each other to death.

Its funny to watch the Conservatives bitching about McCain.. normally
this is a Dem procedure.

Fact is McCain is the only one who has any chance of winning in November

I have heard there could be 3 Supreme Court openings in the next few years.. the Republicans aren't interested in that ?

and Iraq.. do you really want to lose to the Democrats ?

[mogman1]

To be honest, I think it's just the Republican party being upset that they have no really good candidates. I mean, when you compare the Republican race to the Democratic one, there's just no contest. Senators Obama and Clinton get all the media attention and are by far more energizing than any Republican runner has ever been.

I mean, Fred Thompson (who for a while was placing third in the polls BEFORE HE EVEN ENTERED THE RACE) was supposed to run in and save the party. He ran in and...well, we're still not sure what he did. He just kinda flopped around and then dropped out.

As for McCain, I think the Republican party doesn't like him because he's been a bit of a rogue. Both parties hate members that don't strictly tow the party line and will sometimes go to great lengths to ostracize renegade politicians for the purity of the party. He's reached across the aisle too many times and is seen by his party as too much of a Centrist, ironically a label sometimes more despised than being a member of the "other party".

This isn't to say he has a balanced view of things, nor my support. He's made some...interesting comments, especially about Iran (breaking out into a play on the Beach Boy's "Barbara-Ann" singing "Bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb Iran") and seems a little more trigger-happy than I'm comfortable with. I don't like Senator Clinton any better (though not for the same reasons, obviously). That's why I'm pulling for Senator Obama.

[StealthPotato]

Whoa. John McCain is "extremely pro-gun"? As a Crazy Gun-Toting American™, I have an entirely different impression. McCain has supported gun registration, regulating private sales, and mandatory use of gun locks, to name a few. The organization Gun Owners of America (GOA) has been quite outspoken¹ against² him. He may have voted against the original assault weapons ban, but his record on defending civil rights has been less than stellar since.

But then, it's important to understand that the more extreme end of gun-rights advocacy is not just for "conservatives" here. It runs the gamut from die-hard libertarians to none too few social liberals. So a lot of "conservatives" might very well be satisfied with his positions on gun control, while the real RKBA types consider him a scoundrel.

Myself, I'm hoping for an Obama presidency, despite his positively backwards stance on gun control, but if it comes down to it (shudder) I'd rather have McCain than Clinton.


(Links broken since apparently newbies aren't allowed to post links. Meh.)
¹ gunowners dot org/mccaintb.htm
² gunowners dot org/pres08/mccain.htm

[Psudo]

I agree that Ann Coulter's use of the term "liberal" isn't precisely accurate. She's using it to mean "not conservative" or at least "not Ann Coulter conservatism".

None the less, McCain really did upset me with the campaign finance reform thing, his concession to the global warming mainstream, and (to a lesser extent) his immigration stance. His positions on these issues, however, make him more electable rather than less.

I imagine some of my current dislike for McCain is just sour grapes because my candidate didn't make it. We'll see if I warm up to him as the election year continues. If not, I'll probably focus my attention on senate races instead.

I suspect that voters are generally annoyed by Democrats from Bill Clinton and the apparently useless current Democrat Legislature, and that they're absolutely adamant against the mainstream Republican Party because of the Bush Administration, leaving them to look for the kind of across-the-aisle maverick that McCain personifies. I don't share that view, but I expect his election is well in hand.

[hr]Here's StealthPotato's links: [1] and [2]. The only article on NRA.org about McCain is this one, which regarding McCain-Feingold says, "John McCain, we will not be silenced!"

[Psudo]

Also, it's not an obscure conservative point of view to oppose campaign finance. Slate has an article that points out both McCain-Feingold's inability to do what it promises and it's likely unconstitutional restriction on speech and assembly ("incorporation", in this context). The libertarians of Reason Magazine also have an article describing specific cases where the Federal Election Committee is now deciding, for example, whether car dealerships can run their ads 30 days before a primary if the dealership owner's name is the same as a candidate's. How is that an electioneering issue? Yet it's now the FEC's job to judge it.

I also discovered "The Drew Carey Project" through Reason Magazine, which totally rules. Though that has nothing to do with anything in this thread.

[Lunchbox]

There doesn't seem to be any real conservatives left in this world (except for JJ), so it's hard for any of them to really criticize McCain. They all say that conservatives stand for personal liberty, yet a few seconds later, they'll say that they want Bush's surveillance and warrantless taps, searches, and seizures continued. Basically what I'm pointing out is that in the end, none of them know what they are anymore, and it seems so hypocritical to tear up McCain alone, when he's the only chance in hell that the Republicans have at winning this year.

It's funny how Conservatism has been hijacked over the past 20 years or so in America. Reagan started this Conservative Revolution thing about how he lowered taxes, controlled spending, and increased our defense, when he actually overall raised taxes, spent like a madman, and sold weapons to Iran, Iraq, and Nicaragua. Conservatism then kind of died out for a while in fervor until 9/11. The Conservatives, who had a longstanding support for national defense, immediately were the most outspoken to head to war, so they basically recruited that way, and everybody and their mother was suddenly Conservative, because they wanted to kill terrorists and stop abortions. This seemed like a way for the Congress, which had been getting worse since the start of the Clinton's reign, started to try to absolve itself of any insults or accusations by spending like crazy and robbing people's rights, while saying they were Conservatives protecting the country.

I know it's off-subject, but it just seems if someone were to call out people like Coulter, Limbaugh, and the like out on that kind of stuff, that they can really shut them up, and let true conservatism back in, which has many ideals with which I agree (as in against wasteful spending and personal liberties, etc.), even though I'm pretty Liberal. I still crack up at the fact that if the average Conservative from Canada or England ran for America's president, they'd be considered liberals to most every degree.

[Voyager]

I think a lot of it is McCain seems to enjoy poking people in the eye alot.

I mean, take a look at the CSAR-X program. Of the three competing helecopters, the Sikorsky one only offers 25% more payload, for 35% more downwash, the Lockheed/EH one is currently more than 100% over budget in the Marine One program (and four years behind schedule), and the Boeing one for the same emptry weight as the LM/EH entry, has more than twice the available horsepower, twice the disk area (means about half the downwash per area for a given load) and is expected to take around six months to start delivering.

McCain basically forced a re-compete, delaying the program by about a year.

I mean, I expected Hillary's push for the re-compete; the Lockheed plant is in her state, and if the VH-71 program falls through, the way it may very well do, then that plant's out of business, but, McCain, what was he doing?

Little things like that.

Harry Voyager

[mogman1]

I agree. However, the fatal flaw in your logic is that either party has a defined set of principles that they stand up for anymore. That they have some unifying idea of how government should work. The only unifying principle that each party holds to anymore is that the other party is wrong for the direction of the country. Sometimes they literally define themselves by the not of the other party's stance.

Take the war. Because President Bush is the one in charge of it (more-or-less) and takes it has his legacy, it has become a conservative ideal. Thus, by definition, liberals (or democrats. Non-synonymous words that are used interchangeably here in the States) take up the position of getting out of Iraq and Afghanistan (mostly Iraq since it's the most visible). There's no way you can convince me that either party's goals would naturally polarize everyone into one group or the other with little middle ground as is happening now. I should expect to see more dissent within each party about staying or leaving, but as it is they've defined it (like everything else) along party lines. This is our two-party system run amok.

[BartSimpson]

The number one reason conservatives don't like McCain is because liberals LOVE him.

The same liberals who endlessly trash every kind of conservative give McCain a free pass. Can anyone cite a media article trashing McCain the same way they usually trash on conservatives and Republicans?

McCain has been endorsed by the New York Times which is as clear an endorsement by the leftwing in the USA as there can be.

McCain has been endorsed and supported by the current Mexican President who utterly opposes any restrictions on illegal immigration by his people into the USA.

In short, we conservatives don't like him because you liberals love him like he was your Messiah.

[EmperorLiam]

Psudo, no one takes Ann Coulter seriously, just don't acknowledge her.


McCain 'Republicanized' himself right before running, remember him hugging Bush? Personally, McCain was my 'pick' before Ron Paul... but only in the sense of there being no better alternatives.

Pretty damn sure the Democrats are gonna win no matter who the Republicans field anyhow. And I've never been wrong picking the party that wins the election... boy, people sure were convinced Bush wouldn't be re-elected, but I told em' and they didn't listen.

[WBenson]

ManifestDestiny wrote:

Two words ILEAGAL IMMIGRATION. and his support for amnesty.

So conservatives hate him because he acknowledges the impossibility of sending 12 million people packing? I don't understand what "OMG amnesty" people want. The choice is status quo or recognition, and the status quo sucks, IMO, because it involves having 12 million people around that nobody knows who they are or where they are.

[WBenson]

BartSimpson wrote:

The number one reason conservatives don't like McCain is because liberals LOVE him.

I don't. Well, not as a politician. If I could rewire his views but keep his personality the same, he'd be perfect (to me).

[CanadianJeff]

One of the major problems here no one seems to quite realize. Outside of the US even the democrats are a little (and I shutter to use this term) right leaning. The democrats on a true political scale are really more moderate conservatives then liberal anything.

What McCain represents is basically just that in my eyes. Moderate conservatisim. He follows the major convictions of the practice of being conservative at heart in his abortion, gun, iraq and other policies.

However when it comes to government and managing the law itself he falls more into the moderate range of conservatisim. This is why he's being blasted. When it comes to really talking about any major issue the guy sounds off like a republican but in practice of managing the law seems a bit more moderate.

Basically put McCain is "right wing" in all the major ways but none of the minor. He's just not far right enough to pamper to the entire base. Unfortunatly it seems the base he is pampering to can't scream as loud as the ones who don't.

Just my take on it. Feel free to disagree. Then again I may just be bias as I see the US as a little conservative leaning for the most part. Politically it's a sharp contrast to Canada.

Edit:

As an example of how he can move a little more moderatly then other conservatives.

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/politi ... m.cell.cnn

Notice how rather then take the strict Conservative stand he makes concessions.