[Psudo]

Scape wrote:

The potential that the shooting had something to do with a mental history is just dismissed out of hand? Sounds like you have an agenda.

I dismissed the possibility of mental problems influencing the Sulejman Talovic shooting because there is no evidence suggesting it. You're the one who claimed all shooting sprees "were done by people with proven histories of drug abuse that would be applicable to medical help." If Talovic ever abused drugs, show me the proof. If you can't, your claim is discredited, the correlation is flawed, and other preventions besides medical regulation must also be sought.

Scape wrote:

Do you remember the children of the birth control drug that left children deformed?

Thalidomide.

Scape wrote:

If you look at the suicide rates in North America you will see they have gone up considerably.

The same is true (and sometimes worse) in the Far East and most of Europe, which have dramatically different cultural treatment of psychological problems and medications. It does not follow that because suicide and psychiatric drug use have both increased that psychiatric drugs are causing suicides. An increase in depression rates brought on by the stress of urban living could be causing both. Or the rate decrease of other causes of death from advances in physical health care could be leaving more people subject to psychological strain when otherwise they'd be merely dead. Or it could be coincidence. I agree that over-prescribing drugs increases their side effects without reaping their benefits and, thus, is very bad. But it is not the only nor the biggest nor the most relevant problem in our world, in our society, or in the Virginia Tech shootings specifically.

The fact that it's all you can talk about demonstrates it to be a favorite issue of yours that you seek out opportunity to express. Your use of the Virginia Tech shooting as an excuse to advocate your view is a morbid politicization of a tragedy, exactly what J.J.'s comic mocks. Even if you're right.

[Scape]

Even if I am right. Although the toon was with gun control being the argument you don't hear the media touting the drug angle do you? Their silence is deafing. Do you wonder as to why they would ignore such an angle? Let's just suppose that my hunch is correct then and 20 years down the road we look back and suicides and incidents of violence keep rising, we are already at 100,000 dead a year what do you think it will look like? Millions dead and billions lost. Perhaps your right that not every single last case has a drug history that can be proven and that there was other factors. What else would lead to such a drastic rise then? I will even admit that the solution that I am advocating is not a be all end all. It would merely be a governor that would at least slow the widespread occurrence of 'fad' drugs in the system.

This is a sword I am willing to fall upon if indeed I am right. I may not be the best advocate but this is not the assumptions of a mad man either. There is enough here to warrant action now and not wait until the death rates go even higher.

[Psudo]

Scape wrote:

Although the toon was with gun control being the argument

The toon mentions gun control, gun advocacy, immigration, violent video games and movies, bullies, and "ban this, ban that". The comic is not about any of those specific political issues, but rather about the politicization of a tragedy before the bodies are even cool.

Scape wrote:

you don't hear the media touting the drug angle do you? Their silence is deafing.

Here's what I found from a quick search:
Forget guns; let’s talk mental illness
Virginia Tech: Diagnosing the killer
'Ambien' defense causing headaches for prosecutors
People are definitely taking note of the mental illness aspect of it. Most are advocating some government program to better provide mental health care, much like you are. The definition of "better" differs, as most journalists assume the experts prescribe the right medications whereas you do not. But silence it is not.

Scape wrote:

What else would lead to such a drastic rise then?

A similar rise in total population, a reduction in the number of deaths from causes other than suicide, increased pressure from living in a high-pressure urban world, ripple effect from wars and violence elsewhere in the world... those are the other possibilities that spring immediately to mind.

Scape wrote:

This is a sword I am willing to fall upon if indeed I am right. I may not be the best advocate but this is not the assumptions of a mad man either. There is enough here to warrant action now and not wait until the death rates go even higher.

I agree. The issue of overuse of prescription drugs should be addressed. But the VT shootings should not be used as a jumping-off point for it. It is not a case in which misuse of prescription drugs obviously played a primary role. Immigration, gun laws, campus security, and access to competent mental health care all had more of an effect on this case.

[sasquatch2]

Quote:

Pseudo
The toon mentions gun control, gun advocacy, immigration, violent video games and movies, bullies, and "ban this, ban that". The comic is not about any of those specific political issues, but rather about the politicization of a tragedy before the bodies are even cool.

Yes!!!!

The media does however appear to concentrate on the gun-control angle and the usual suspects have surfaced to shamelessly exploit this to further their agenda.

[Scape]

The undercurrent of politicization was well underway before Cho but he acts as a point of ignition. The pressures that created the politicization to begin with have not relented and will only grow more acute as inaction holds sway.

Perception is everything and as I recall there were many discussions that were made when the bodies were not yet cold but to my mind it was the gun issue that was paramount. The other issues were brought up to be sure but never held the public discourse on the MSM anywhere near the intensity as the gun issue and the action of NBC publishing Cho's ramblings and pictures that he mailed off mid-massacre. It bleeds and once again it leads to further neglect of the deeper issue. To me that is the sound of silence and if this can not be used at the catalyst for change then what?

[Psudo]

Is your point, Scape, that others' political bias excuses your own?

Also, I contend that the media bias you perceive is the result of which media you view. Rush Limbaugh collectively calls the TV News and the most reactionary newspapers "The Drive-By Media" because of their shallow, predictable coverage. Rush himself is openly politically biased, giving a deeper but slanted analysis of generally the same issues. Thanks to the very internet you're using, every newspaper, blog, pundit, and commentator's views can be accessed and bookmarked. If you don't like the media you're seeing, find something else. Most Americans are; TV news ratings and newspaper sales are way down. The major names from a decade ago don't monopolize perception anymore, and the discussions you want heard openly are being heard openly somewhere. Go find them, or start a blog and establish them.

Perception is only everything if one's ability to act is ignored.

[Scape]

My point is that to every action is an equal and opposite reaction. It's not my fault that I have bias for I like everyone else I possess an ego. I don't discount that at all. What I am saying rather is that the overemphasis on the gun control/cho pic's angle that has dwarfed any other issue in the days following by the MSM has made the cause of drug reform and even immigration that much harder to have a fair hearing. Their impact on this issue was just as prominent.

One thing is for certain, the the way legal drugs are dispensed and monitored in the US needs to mature. Cho's fate merely added emphasis. If you think that my bias has lead me to that conclusion solely and not the circumstances that have culminated in this disaster then perhaps you need to review your own set of biases.

[Psudo]

I'm pretty happy with where this debate is now. We agree that everyone has a bias, we agree that all angles impacting this case deserve a fair hearing, we agree the MSM is not providing that, and we agree that the USA handles prescription drugs rather crappily. We still disagree about whether the MSM matters, and about what specific changes the USA needs to make to prescription drug handling, but I think we've established some good common ground and I'm content. I think this is a good place for the debate to end.

[Scape]

Daily Show: Who’s to Blame for VATech Massacre?

I think he sums the whole thing up nicely. I'm glad your happy but what do you think the families of the 32 that died are, overjoyed at the way this has been handled? When the next inevitable killing happens and your still happy will they still be dead? Isn't your inner peace at their expense? If the argument that erupts as a consequence from the state of disrepair that the system clearly is in becomes simply an exercise for you to be mooted then I have issue with that. Rather than seeing the deaths that resulted as something that is inherently wrong and a needless preventable waste your seeing something else. Whatever that may be your intent, the end result is to spread a paralysis to any debate that must transpire for change to manifest itself.

For the victims their debate has ended but not for the families of the hundreds of thousands that will follow their footsteps in lockstep with no chance for change and denied any advocate for their plight.

[Psudo]

Yes, clearly my satisfaction with our little discussion is a direct attack on the families of the VT victims and incentive for future spree killers. How do I live with myself?

[Scape]

When your see the death on TV it has that aspect of surrealism. As a society we have become callous to a degree. Day in day out bombings in Iraq and Afghanistan make us numb. I don't suppose that would be any different when death strikes on our side this blue marble that zombie like state we have become accustomed to can be shattered at least for a few moments but one can hope. If you see something like this and don't get outraged then a little piece of the soul has died as well. Like that high pitched ringing in our ears when we are too close to a loud bang that noise is the last time in our lives we will hear that frequency again as that part of our hearing is lost forever, so too we are in danger of losing that part of our soul whenever we get 'used' to killings. We tell ourselves it wasn't me, or it wasn't someone dear or it wasn't whatever to get is passed that moment but inside all of us something has died. I refuse to let that go quietly.

To keep hope alive is to still have the flame of idealism. To be jaded and dismiss idealism as naïveté dressed up is defeatism. We need a little revolution from time to time to shake up the entropy of the status quo. It is in that spirit I believe is the best way to honor the families of the fallen victims of this senseless tragedy.

[Psudo]

I can be outraged at the senseless slaughter of human beings without automatically jumping on the politicization bandwagon. Can you?

[Scape]

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. - Edmund Burke

As you have said yourself this was a senseless slaughter of human beings. Some people tune out and console themselves by saying that's just the way it is and some things will never change. Does that sound like the voice of liberty? Tears are not enough and hard effort has created great things that stand the test of time. When people are dying there is a demand for action. When it is senseless then that demand must rebuke in the strongest terms possible that their lives did have meaning. Status quo has failed them and it will keep failing. To repair the failing system would give their loss meaning.