[Newsbot]

Filibuster Cartoons
Title: Ignatieff the foreigner (click to view)
Date: January 21, 2011
The dawn of a new year in Canada heralds a fresh excuse to engage in the Canadian news media's favorite pastime: endless election speculation. Will 2011 be the year Prime Minister Harper chooses to seek his third term? Let's amass yet another expert panel to idly speculate!

Speculation that this year might be the year is made a lot easier by the recent conduct of the Conservative government, however. Earlier this week, the party launched a series of vicious new election-style attack ads, which blast Liberal leader Michael Ignatieff for a variety of political (and personal) crimes against the nation.

At this point, the CPC's dominant anti-Ignatieff narrative focuses heavily on the fact that Iggy has lived much of his adult life outside of Canada, and only returned to the country very recently, when it became obvious he could pursue a political career here. The vast majority of his over three-decades aboard was spent in England, where he was a longtime professor at Cambridge University, as well as a celebrated writer and commentator at various British publications. The Conservatives, however, are preferring to focus on the considerably shorter bouts of time he spent living and working in the United States, most notably his 2000-2005 stint as a human rights prof at Harvard. In the insecure world of anti-American Canadian nationalism, the idea that a future prime minister voluntarily left his own country to work in the US is quite beyond the pale. What's worse, Iggy actually seemed to enjoy his time there, as evidenced by this attack ad, which plays up the fact that Ignatieff once declared that he "loved" America.

Now to be fair, it's true that Ignatieff did in fact go farther than most ex-pat Canadians in the US during his years there, in terms of voluntarily self-identifying as an American. Damning out-of-context quotes aside, it's not hard to find instances of Ignatieff speaking openly about the United States as "my country" or using terms like "us" and "we" in reference to Americans, or the American national interest. This Charlie Rose episode from 2003 is a good example.

It's just as clear, however, that the concern with Iggy's words really has nothing to do with the idea that he is possibly a man of dual loyalties or identities. Dual citizenship is actively tolerated in Canada, and any resident of a multicultural Canadian metropolis knows that it is not at all uncommon to encounter fellow countrymen who speak of themselves as being "Chinese," "Italian," "Haitian" or whatever, just as much as being Canadians. Nor is it uncommon for us to tolerate politicians of foreign birth, or ones who have spent much of their adult lives, or formative years, outside of Canadian borders. Indeed, one imagines more than a few "we's" and "us's" are thrown around when, for example, Michaelle Jean, our former Haitian-born governor-general, speaks at a gathering of fellow Haitian emigres about the future of that country, or when Ujjal Dosanjh, the former Indo-Canadian premier of British Columbia, raises his trademark concerns about violence within the Sikh community. And of course, in the eyes of the government of Canada, it's now considered perfectly acceptable for French-Canadians to consider themselves residents of a different "nation" altogether.

The double-standard that Ignatieff is experiencing is the fundamental paradox of Canada's famously inclusive national spirit. In this country you can call yourself anything you want, practice any culture you want, and celebrate any foreign nation you want. Just as long as it's not America.

[DanSC]

Newsbot wrote:

The Conservatives, however, are preferring to focus on the considerably shorter bouts of time he spent living and working in the United States, most notably his 2000-2005 stint as a human rights prof at Harvard.

Barack Obama lived in Indonesia for 4-5 years, admittedly as a child, and that never really came up as a issue. (No one said he was born in Indonesia). I hindsight I'm surprised some didn't make a bigger stink about it.

[Zipperfish]

DanSC wrote:

Barack Obama lived in Indonesia for 4-5 years, admittedly as a child, and that never really came up as a issue. (No one said he was born in Indonesia). I hindsight I'm surprised some didn't make a bigger stink about it.

.

No, never came up as an issue at all.

[fatbasturd]

[martin14]

DanSC wrote:

Newsbot wrote:

The Conservatives, however, are preferring to focus on the considerably shorter bouts of time he spent living and working in the United States, most notably his 2000-2005 stint as a human rights prof at Harvard.

Barack Obama lived in Indonesia for 4-5 years, admittedly as a child, and that never really came up as a issue. (No one said he was born in Indonesia). I hindsight I'm surprised some didn't make a bigger stink about it.

Those who tried were immediately branded as racist.


Jean was appointed, not elected. I did not approve, and was happy to see her go.
She can go be the president of Haiti with Baby Doc.

JJ makes the point hyphenated Canadians, but I wonder if slowly but surely,
if the pendulum isn't starting to swing the other way on that issue.

[DanSC]

Zipperfish wrote:

DanSC wrote:

Barack Obama lived in Indonesia for 4-5 years, admittedly as a child, and that never really came up as a issue. (No one said he was born in Indonesia). I hindsight I'm surprised some didn't make a bigger stink about it.

.

No, never came up as an issue at all.

Almost all of the "birther" drivel came from people thinking he was born in Kenya, not that he lived in Indonesia as a child. Considering how much some people despise the man however, I'm surprised they didn't seriously try a "his loyalties lie in Indonesia" line of rhetoric like the CPC is taking with Ignatieff.

[thealmightynarf]

Anyone have a YouTube link for that ad? I'm curios to see it.

[DanSC]

[Zipperfish]

DanSC wrote:

Almost all of the "birther" drivel came from people thinking he was born in Kenya, not that he lived in Indonesia as a child. Considering how much some people despise the man however, I'm surprised they didn't seriously try a "his loyalties lie in Indonesia" line of rhetoric like the CPC is taking with Ignatieff.

I'm not even an American, I don't watch American news, but even I heard the whole "Obamam is Muslim" arguemnt because he spent some time in Indonesia.

I don't think the two are comparable. The charges against Obama are primarily driven by racism and are not based on fact. In the case of Ignatieff, it's base on the fact that he hasn't lived in Canada for most of his career.

I don't think anti-American rhetoric has much to do with it. I think JJ overstates the case here, and has in the past, with the reflexive anti-Americanism. I was born in the US and spent a bit of time there growing up, as did my wife and a number of our friends. Most people don't bat an eye when they hear that. I think the fact that Ignatieff was a force in influencing policy at a pretty senior level, and writing papers on US policy, is more damaging--particularly policies viewed as toxic in Canada, such as support for the invasion and occupation of Iraq, support of arbitrary indefinite detention and torture.

[thealmightynarf]

Wow, Canada... wow... Glad to know the US isn't the only country that goes that low.

[thealmightynarf]

Zipperfish wrote:

I don't think anti-American rhetoric has much to do with it.

Did you not see the same ad I just saw? There was no mention of his career or activism in America... just that he likes America and may go back some day. THAT is the great evil he committed.

Sure, there may be a legitimate argument to be made... but, that ad certainly didn't make it.

[DanSC]

Zipperfish wrote:

DanSC wrote:

Almost all of the "birther" drivel came from people thinking he was born in Kenya, not that he lived in Indonesia as a child. Considering how much some people despise the man however, I'm surprised they didn't seriously try a "his loyalties lie in Indonesia" line of rhetoric like the CPC is taking with Ignatieff.

I'm not even an American, I don't watch American news, but even I heard the whole "Obamam is Muslim" arguemnt because he spent some time in Indonesia.

I agree that is a small part of it, but I think most of that argument came from the fact his father was Muslim for a brief period of time; he went from Catholic to Muslim to Atheist.

Quote:

The evangelical pastor Franklin Graham mentioned that as a reason on Aug. 19 on CNN: "He was born a Muslim. His father was a Muslim; the seed of Muslim is passed through the father like the seed of Judaism is passed through the mother. He was born a Muslim; his father gave him an Islamic name."

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter ... ma-muslim/

[Pseudonym]

Yeah, every "Obama is a sekrit Muslim" argument I have heard has focused on his dad's faith, not upon his time in Indonesia.

BTW, DanSC, are you a fellow SC resident?

[DanSC]

Pseudonym wrote:

Yeah, every "Obama is a sekrit Muslim" argument I have heard has focused on his dad's faith, not upon his time in Indonesia.

BTW, DanSC, are you a fellow SC resident?

No actually; it is the first two letters of my last name. I really do like going to South Carolina though.

[raydan]

The only people saying Obama was not born in the USA did NOT vote for him.
The only people saying Iggy lived in the USA will NOT vote for him.


As for Obama, he is a native of Honolulu, Hawaii... Wiki says so!