[Issyl]

The brilliance of a representative democratic system is that the minority is still represented at the national level of government. Here in the United States, that means that this legislation is "watered down," because it contains the interests of as many people as possible, rather than being a far-right or far-left bill that disregards the rights of those who do not support it.

Now in this system, due to conflicting viewpoints, you will still have people who do not support even a compromised bill that supports as many people as possible. However, hopefully, in the democratic system, the Democratic Party majority doesn't use their rights to disregard the rights of the minority. This has been represented by them having to "compromise" the bill to get 60 votes, and it is a result of a system that respects those that do not agree with the majority in power.

As far as the bill itself goes, I have read summarized versions of it, and I support it because I believe it takes us in the right direction, even if I am more of a leftist and would like more comprehensive and widespread reform.

I hope that the DP doesn't have to resort to reconciliation or Deem&Pass to get this bill through.

[PTBO]

Personally the health care debate shows everything that is soulless and wrong with American political system. Though for a Canadian born long after the huge battles over public health care in Saskatchewan it is very difficult to understand. I used to think that having socialized medicine as part of our national identity was a little silly. But it makes more sense now.

I met an American bartender in Alaska who fell off a roof and her medical bill costs her 90 grand. Later when I was hitchhiking I got pick up by a Canadian mechanic who fell off his roof and absolutely destroyed himself and spent 8 months in the ICU. And it was needless to say that cost was not an issue. The difference is just so stark. This friend of mine's brother got a line drive to the face in Windsor and spent a lot of time in hospital. And his parents were like- wow- if we lived a kilometre south we would have been destitute and lost our house and everything we have.

Socialized medicine gives you freedom from fear. Just like EI. EI is a mandatory deduction but its hard to find people that complain very hard about it. Its hard to find many people that really really want private car insurance in BC. When the free market in Ontario makes you pay twice as much for car insurance then even fairly conservative people are likely to back a state run insurance monopoly.

[Voyager]

Psudo wrote:

Voyager wrote:

Ask said-same supporters "Is X in the bill, and where is it?" All you get are blank stares.

You gave 47 minutes for someone to respond when the average response time in this thread is more than three hours. That's just stupid.

He was on me in 6 minutes. It has now been a day or so, and I notice he has not answered one of them, not even "Are you legal?"

I also find it a touch ironic that he considers the question of whether his own policy is legal under the new law "random".

[Psudo]

What is the difference between Canadian socialized medicine and a private charity paying for the medical costs?

Alternately, what is the difference between Canadian socialized medicine and US hospitals that offer health care regardless of the patient's ability to pay? (There are some. In my area, we have IHC, for example.)

I'm not sure it makes sense to compare the uniform, national Canadian system to the array of diverse regional systems that make up the US system.

David Leonhardt of the New York Times wrote:

human beings can also be unduly influenced by just a few experiences, like the treatment of an especially memorable patient.

[Kjorteo]

The thing about message boards and forums is that people respond A) when they feel like they have something worth saying and B) when they have the time. I just received e-mail notification that there were new replies in this thread right when I coincidentally happened to not have much else going on right now, so this response may be a bit rapid if you actually care enough to be keeping track. That does not mean I was evading earlier, nor does it mean I'm back and willing to play "whoever takes more than half an hour to respond loses" with you now.

Of course my policy is legal under the new law. I'm on Medicaid. There was a lot of arguing between the House and Senate on whether the cutoff line on what you should earn less than to qualify should be $30,000 or $40,000 or what (I don't remember the exact figures offhand, though,) but it's guaranteed not to affect me either way because I make $11,000. I devoted an entire paragraph to that in my last response; I'm not sure how you managed to miss it.

[Voyager]

44K, as I recall.

Tensions are kind of running high at the moment. See, you're not going to take a hit is all of this, but I'm going to get hammer by the tax increase, right around the time my Dad and Uncle are getting laid off, and right around the time my youngest brother is starting college, which also happens to be right around the time my other brother gets out. I'm pretty much looking at the prospect of being the only person in my immediate family with a steady income, right about the time I'm going to lose a large chunk of it to pay for benefits somebody else will get four years from now.

Gah. I can't believe I just wrote a frigging sob story. Welcome to the brave new zero-sum world, where your gain is somebody's loss. Welcome to the beginning of the never ending health-care fight.

Addendum to the addendum to the addendum: I just love how the "start new post from scratch" button is right below "submit quick post you just spent the past 30 minutes writing button" Don't you just love sending posts into the aether?