[Newsbot]

Filibuster Cartoons
Title: Karzai's Courtiers (click to view)
Date: June 23, 2010
In a rare piece of good news for the country, it was recently discovered that Afghanistan, far from being the useless sinkhole we all assumed, actually possesses some of the world's largest untapped reserves of precious metals. The Afghan government estimates that the resources, which include gold, copper, and iron, as well as all sorts of other, weirder, rarer minerals, have an estimated net worth of about $3 trillion dollars; an estimate which has predictably generated all sorts of giddy glee across the poor nation.

It would have probably generated some giddy glee in Washington as well, had not President Karzai made the somewhat odd decree that priority contracts for the mining and extraction of the minerals will be given to Japan, and not the US.

Karzai has been having a number of high-profile spats with the Americans lately, whom he feels are undermining his leadership, so it's hard not to see his present to Japan as a vindictive snub. Nothing like throwing around your country's natural resources to remind everyone who's boss.

[Freakinoldguy]

Good luck with that one Hamid, piss off the Americans.

My guess would be that your life expectancy would be about an hour if NATO wasn't there to pull you gonads out of the proverbial fire and this snub is just about the best way to test that theory.

But on the plus side, maybe now Karzai can pay for the protection we've been providing him and his corrupt cabinet, or, at the very least, some of the cost of the prosecution of the war which keeps him in power.

[Marcus_Ozius]

When is it going to be okay to admit that some countries just *CAN'T* manage themselves? At least, for the time being. All of the respect that's been paid to national sovereignty in the last half century seems to have accomplished little more than to collapse what little good existed in those countries in the first place. Why not just admit that Afghanistan is a failed state, let Karzai topple, and set up a protectorate state administered with a goal towards gradual democratic development, self determination, and the like. It's worked before. Sure, we can bomb them into the stone age, but we can't bomb them into the present.
As much as I realize that, the world being what it is, this solution is too unpopular to be considered, but it seems that in all of these conflicts around the world we're left with the realization that the only way some countries will be functional is by force, and the only way to spread democracy is at the point of a bayonet.
We'll modernize and democratize people whether they like it or not!
Why does that not sound right?

[martin14]

A present to Japan ?


Wonder what he will have to give to the Chinese to keep them from
turning Afghanistan into Tibet II.

[Psudo]

Marcus_Ozius wrote:

Why not just admit that Afghanistan is a failed state, let Karzai topple, and set up a protectorate state administered with a goal towards gradual democratic development, self determination, and the like. It's worked before.

Perhaps because Afghanis have a history of rejecting colonization and outside control, even that of massive military states like the Soviets.

[Quantum_Wizard]

Marcus_Ozius wrote:

When is it going to be okay to admit that some countries just *CAN'T* manage themselves?

Did this particular piece of news make you come to that conclusion or was it something else? Regardless of whether this decision is a bad one or not, it's still not a state shattering one.

[Marcus_Ozius]

This is just a general thought. Some countries don't seem to be able to function on their own.

[Quantum_Wizard]

Marcus_Ozius wrote:

This is just a general thought. Some countries don't seem to be able to function on their own.

Okay. I'm not sure how serious you were earlier and what exactly would you suggest instead of current situation, but let's just say that I'm not convinced of your view.

[Voyager]

You know what, more power to them. There are far worse groups than Japan that they could be allying themselves with.

Psudo wrote:

Marcus_Ozius wrote:

Why not just admit that Afghanistan is a failed state, let Karzai topple, and set up a protectorate state administered with a goal towards gradual democratic development, self determination, and the like. It's worked before.

Perhaps because Afghanis have a history of rejecting colonization and outside control, even that of massive military states like the Soviets.

Well, technically speaking, the Soviets tried to exterminate them, which is slightly different than setting up a protectorate.

[Psudo]

JJ: Your facebook comments link seems to be pointed at www.facebook etc rather than http://www.facebook etc. Thus, it's broken. That's probably why you've got fewer facebook comments than usual (and than deserved).

[Marcus_Ozius]

Really, my view is unworkable. I admit it. There doesn't seem to be a workable solution.
Failed states, or even a capable warlord, now have the capacity to inflict a massive and terrible death toll on anybody or anything they desire. It is not that these countries are, say, any worse than they were a few hundred years ago, it's just that their capacity and ability to inflict damage has increased; meanwhile, the society that has these capabilities has *NOT* developed at the same pace. If we had given the bomb to the Romans they'd have used it. It is something that an advanced society is barely capable of handing responsibly let alone in these states where modernization has given no benefits save to make on aware of the relative wealth of others compared to them.
Society and civilization take time to develop and a culture is something that takes a long time to come into being. A respect for life and a sense of moderation is something that is not a part of the worldview in many cultures. It's only a VERY recent development in ours. You can't force civilization down somebody's throat, and you can't shoot people into a respect for life. At the same time, if left to their own devices, I wonder what these people wouldn't stop at if they had the capacity.
In some crazy world where western cultures lived up to what it claimed it was,I'd love to see the world actually do what it claimed it was doing a hundred years ago, namely, spreading civilization and maybe making a few bucks in the process. The legacy of imperialism, for all of its faults, brought a lot of good to the world. The people who argued against imperialism did so with arguments they learned in the schools of their captors with the ideas of the writers from a civilization they tried to reject.
But, this is reality and I wonder if one oughtn't just fiddle while Rome burns at this point.

[BartSimpson]

Voyager wrote:

Well, technically speaking, the Soviets tried to exterminate them, which is slightly different than setting up a protectorate.

Given the experience of the allies over the past nine years the Soviet strategy would seem...pragmatic.

[Crosshair]

Part of the problem is that we have arbitrary borders setup by the British, French, Germans, and others when they left their former colonies. Borders that did not reflect cultural and political reality of those areas. Getting lots of people who REALLY don't like each other to life together in one countries does not have a good track record.

Look at what happened to Yugoslavia, it broke into smaller countries that, overall, provided for a much more stable region.

The idea has popped up that probably the best solution is to let the lines be redrawn to reflect cultural and political reality.

Here is one such picture that shows how thing might turn out.

[martin14]

Interesting map.

Never going to happen though.


You could argue that Yugoslavia was the artificial country that prevented
the 7 peoples inside from being independent.

But it didnt really into these countries, they were always there.


Or, is that what you are trying to argue ?

[Crosshair]

martin14 wrote:

Interesting map.

Never going to happen though.


You could argue that Yugoslavia was the artificial country that prevented
the 7 peoples inside from being independent.

But it didnt really into these countries, they were always there.


Or, is that what you are trying to argue ?

Basically. These borders were artificially drawn by foreigners. If there was a way to just call a do-over and let the orders be redrawn that would probably make for a much more stable region.

You're right though,it will never happen even if it could be proven that it would be a positive step.