[Newsbot]

Filibuster Cartoons
Title: Layton's puzzling adventure (click to view)
Date: September 4, 2010
The much beleaguered Canadian gun registry appears to be on its last legs. Passed by the Chretien administration ages ago, the legislation requires most Canadian gun owners to register their firearms with the government, theoretically for safety and "accountability" reasons. Gun owners themselves have strongly resisted the measure since day one, however, claiming that registration is arduous, and unfairly casts state suspicion on the law-abiding. Bad guys willing to commit gun crimes will obviously never bother to register their guns, so why waste so much money ($2 billion and counting) to obsessively police the least-threatening subset of gun owners?

The Conservative Party has long promised to repeal the legislation, and in an upcoming vote in the House of Commons, their caucus will attempt to pass a motion to do just that. But in our wonderful minority parliament situation, the Conservatives can only pass bills with the support of another party, and clearly the Liberals, who usually ally with the CPC, are not willing to endorse the destruction of one of their most cherished social programs.

All eyes thus turn to the NDP, and their leader, Jack Layton. Though left-wing on most economic issues, the New Democratic caucus is actually fairly diverse — certainly moreso than the Liberal caucus — and contains MPs from many different geographic communities. More than few members represent rural districts where gun ownership is taken fairly seriously — by lefties as well as righties.

In order to save face, Layton has toyed with two options: 1) let his caucus members vote however they want on the gun registry, which shouldn't be a big news story, but of course it is in the context of the stupid Canadian parliamentary system, or 2) introduce motions to water down the registry, but not kill it outright, and let everyone be a winner! A suggested way for the latter objective to be achieved would be to introduce some sort of double-standard clause, whereby urban gun owners would be regulated differently than rural ones, and thus appease the city-dwelling NDP voters who are more likely to advocate extreme anti-gun positions.

It's a rare moment in Canadian politics when the NDP really has much influence over anything of substance, and this could end up being one of Mr. Layton's most consequential decisions in his lengthy leadership. What do you think he should do?

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[Bruce_the_vii]

I saw this political cartoon about the gun registry a decade a go. In the cartoon a man had sandbagged himself into his living room and was holding his rifle. The wife was standing by and the caption was "just register the thing".

[Psudo]

I love the idea of Layton letting NDP MPs vote their conscience. I wonder what kind of government a nation could have if everyone in that government voted their conscience.

Incidentally, the link is wrong. Try this one instead. Also, from Twitter JJ recommended this one.

[hurley_108]

Psudo wrote:

I love the idea of Layton letting NDP MPs vote their conscience. I wonder what kind of government a nation could have if everyone in that government voted their conscience.

In Canada's parliamentary system, a potentially less stable one. Whipping votes is necessary to ensure that confidence matters have the best chance of passing (or failing, if you're an opposition party). It's only natural that the whipping process get extended to other matters as well. Fixed election dates regardless of confidence is a requisite for elimination of whipping, but then you could have a situation in which a government finds itself with no budget and years left in its mandate.

A stable systen with no whipping of votes would require some very creative problem solving from people who are more accustomed to problem making....

[PTBO]

As a rural NDPer I was pretty sympathetic to the whole abolishing the registry deal and I'm generally pretty unsympathetic to the police so I don't particularly care for their pro-registry views. But then I actually took my Non-Restricted course and started applying for my PAL and I found I had absolutely no sympathy for older guys who were complaining about the registry and the associated costs. The costs: 100 for the course-good for life, 60 for the lifetime licence and free for registering firearms are not particularly onerous and certainly cheaper then dealing with the dreaded vehicle registry.

Registering your firearm is free and takes less then five minutes. While the start up costs were ridiculously lowballed, the continuing cost is around 60 million a year and that can be made a lot cheaper by introducing registering fees which I wouldn't really mind; get the firearms owner to pay more for the registry then non-firearms owners- seems fair to me.

I am not sympathetic to the "having to register my guns makes me feel like criminal". Sounds like people just have to man up and take responsibility for themselves and their possessions. I'm not planning to shoot anyone when I buy my firearms but I dont mind registering them just like I don't mind registering my vehicle.

I do like the NDP's position though- apparently they are the only party committed to a democratic consensus on this issue. The vote would be far more interesting however if Conservative, Bloc and Liberal MPs were allowed to vote for their conscience rather then the party directive.

My MP (Alex Atamentenko NDP-BC Southern Interior) is a gun owner but will vote for the registry- a position he hasn't changed for five years. And that works just fine for me.

[RUEZ]

PTBO wrote:

As a rural NDPer I was pretty sympathetic to the whole abolishing the registry deal and I'm generally pretty unsympathetic to the police so I don't particularly care for their pro-registry views. But then I actually took my Non-Restricted course and started applying for my PAL and I found I had absolutely no sympathy for older guys who were complaining about the registry and the associated costs. The costs: 100 for the course-good for life, 60 for the lifetime licence and free for registering firearms are not particularly onerous and certainly cheaper then dealing with the dreaded vehicle registry.

Registering your firearm is free and takes less then five minutes. While the start up costs were ridiculously lowballed, the continuing cost is around 60 million a year and that can be made a lot cheaper by introducing registering fees which I wouldn't really mind; get the firearms owner to pay more for the registry then non-firearms owners- seems fair to me.

I am not sympathetic to the "having to register my guns makes me feel like criminal". Sounds like people just have to man up and take responsibility for themselves and their possessions. I'm not planning to shoot anyone when I buy my firearms but I dont mind registering them just like I don't mind registering my vehicle.

I do like the NDP's position though- apparently they are the only party committed to a democratic consensus on this issue. The vote would be far more interesting however if Conservative, Bloc and Liberal MPs were allowed to vote for their conscience rather then the party directive.

My MP (Alex Atamentenko NDP-BC Southern Interior) is a gun owner but will vote for the registry- a position he hasn't changed for five years. And that works just fine for me.

If gun registration is free why is free gun registration part of Laytons solution? Also I have yet to hear of anyone complaining about having to get a pal. Clearly there needs to be a way to distinguish who and who should not get a firearm. However I'm sure my local gang member hasn't gotten his PAL but what are you going to do?

Sidenote:a PAL has to be renewed every five years, so it's not $60 for a lifetime license.

[CanadianJeff]

On this issue when the vast majority of Canadians do not want the registry (the last globe and mail polled 79% of Canadians don't want the program."

It's really a chance for Layton to play to the voters and be financially responsible in the face of the two big parties both being morons with Canadians tax money.

[Kjorteo]

Off-topic from the rest of the discussion so far, but let me just say that the Professor Layton theme is the most awesome cartoon I've seen in... a very long time. "A true gentleman leaves no gun unregistered," or something. I love it. No coins or Picarats, either, poor fellow. Is the No. 2,486 a comic reference? I don't know what number you're up to, now, since you usually just go by date instead.

[kettal]

CanadianJeff wrote:

On this issue when the vast majority of Canadians do not want the registry (the last globe and mail polled 79% of Canadians don't want the program."

I can't imagine any non-gun owners really caring.

[DeBoom]

kettal wrote:

CanadianJeff wrote:

On this issue when the vast majority of Canadians do not want the registry (the last globe and mail polled 79% of Canadians don't want the program."

I can't imagine any non-gun owners really caring.

Most non-gun owners care because the registry has been a colossal waste of taxpayer money and is of questionable use. Two billion was spent to start the registry and a hundred million more is spent every year on the program and the best the advocates of the registry can point to is a handful of cases where the registry helped the investigation of a crime. A few cases being helped by the registry doesn't justify the massive price tag.

Plus I'm sure there are a few hard core libertarians who just want the government to stop interfering with private property.

[dodobird]

Wasn't one of the big story's the other week about how they had finally reined in the spending on it and, how the conservatives wont release these findings until they've had time to "interpret them"?. They've had the report since February

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2010/08/25/long-gun-registry-report-rcmp.html

heres the CBC article on it.

[PTBO]

RUEZ wrote:

If gun registration is free why is free gun registration part of Laytons solution? Also I have yet to hear of anyone complaining about having to get a pal. Clearly there needs to be a way to distinguish who and who should not get a firearm. However I'm sure my local gang member hasn't gotten his PAL but what are you going to do?

Sidenote:a PAL has to be renewed every five years, so it's not $60 for a lifetime license.[/quote]

Well in the past the registry was supposed to be largely paid by registration fees. The Conservatives (for better or for worse) upped the cost of the program by quite a bit by refunding all the registration money. So you pay now but it is refund right away. Layton is trying to cut down paperwork and save costs by just stopping people from sending the money in the first place.

Yes a PAL has to be renewed every 5 years but it is free to renew so yes for all intents and purposes it is a lifetime licence.

The PAL was brought in with Bill C-68 which also brought in the registry so alot of people opposed it then and still oppose it. True, most mainstream gun owners do feel that it is completely reasonable to put restrictions on possession of a device that can very easily kill someone whether it is intentional or otherwise. But there is a fairly vocal minority who perhaps look a little too much to the south, who are furious over any restrictions whatsoever.

Really the hassle and the expense of the system comes from the licencing rather then registering which is free (okay you pay but it is refunded in order to keep more bureaucrats working), and takes 5 minutes.

[kettal]

DeBoom wrote:

kettal wrote:

CanadianJeff wrote:

On this issue when the vast majority of Canadians do not want the registry (the last globe and mail polled 79% of Canadians don't want the program."

I can't imagine any non-gun owners really caring.

Most non-gun owners care because the registry has been a colossal waste of taxpayer money and is of questionable use. Two billion was spent to start the registry and a hundred million more is spent every year on the program and the best the advocates of the registry can point to is a handful of cases where the registry helped the investigation of a crime. A few cases being helped by the registry doesn't justify the massive price tag.

Plus I'm sure there are a few hard core libertarians who just want the government to stop interfering with private property.

Is the money going to magically re-appear if the registry is cancelled?

[DeBoom]

No but it will stop more money from being wasted on this useless registry. The 2 billion will never be recover but that is no reason to continue to waste money. Lets cut our loss and put the money into something that not only works but doesn't make a large group Canadians feel like they are being treated like criminals because they like to duck hunt.

[Crosshair]

I've been gone from here for awhile and I finally found this comic.

When I was going to college I worked at the Wal-Mart gun counter and quickly earned a reputation as the "gun guy". (I still am one. ) Plenty of Canadians came down to buy ammo and would openly admit to owning unregistered guns. From what I was told, the registry is largely unenforced because the police know it's useless and siphons resources from where they might be better used. Thus nobody is arrested over it unless they are committing some other crime.

Getting rid of it would be good for all of Canada, not just the gun owners, for the reasons listed above.