[Brenda]

andyt wrote:

Brenda wrote:

I have no problem with a basic health care system (everyone has the same right to emergency health care, family doctor and even basic dental care) and have an insurance system for the rest.
It would mean that if you need open heart surgery, a new kidney, cancer treatment or whatever, health care for children, that that is taken care of, but physiotherapy, other than basic dental care, acupuncturists, vision care (other than through a hospital), etc etc you could insure yourself for. If you need a hip replacement, that is paid for, but no more than an x-amount of physio therapy sessions. If you need more than the minimum, ya gotta pay. Or had yourself insured.

I have news for you, that's about how it works in BC. Physio has long been removed from medicare, dental care was never covered, neither is accupuncture or vison care. And all those things don't amount to a hill of beans vs surgery etc. The greatest medical expenditures are in the first and last year of life - that's where the money goes.

You should know this stuff, you've lived here long enough.

So it is NOT how it works in BC. Basic dental is not covered, kids are not fully covered, etc etc.

And excuse me, I have never used an ER in the 3.5 years I have lived here. Nor have my children. I guess we are the only ones in the province tho, if I have to go on the stories I hear.

[CKASlacker]

Lemmy wrote:

I'm not suggesting the USA should want a system like ours. Frankly, I don't care how they go about running their healthcare system. And I'm not saying there's anything wrong with a profit motive in healthcare, particularly in research and also for practitioners. But that's a completely different thing from a profit motive among insurance companies. Insurance companies are an absolute economic dead weight loss in the healthcare system. No matter what system you choose, allowing private insurance companies to gobble ANY of the pie, let alone a third of it, makes no economic sense at all. They're utterly parasitic.

I don't love the insurance companies either. In some ways they're not unlike a ticket "broker" or scalper -- all the money they take in is less than they pay out, otherwise they're out of business, and surely that money would be better spent going directly from all the users to the providers.

On the other hand, they do serve one useful (albeit a side effect) purpose. Most actively encourage preventative / early treatment and detection of ailments (usually by waving co-pays or whatever), since this saves them money in the long run. This is also good for patients since early detection is always preferable to later.

Lemmy wrote:

I guess it's rather like the US Marines when they declare that they will never leave one of their own behind. There's a certain morality in that that's appealing to most Canadians, myself included. When it comes to emergency care, we're mostly equally at the mercy of fate, regardless our lot in life. Sharing that risk seems civilized to me.

Except it often doesn't quite work like that, but more on a black market, "I know a guy" method where "insiders" can get preferential treatment. For instance a colleague I've played soccer with for years needed the same knee surgery in Canada that I got. Her doctor considers these injuries more series serious than others might, and she got an accelerated date for surgery (she's also a registered nurse -- I don't know if that played into it or not). Similarly, an ex of mine required an MRI (for the same knee injury!) and was given a date 3-4 months down the road. Because I worked in MR research and knew the head tech of my institution, I managed to get her a much earlier appointment. So what you say is certainly nice on paper, but isn't at all what actually happens in reality. Why not just strip the veneer and say we provide multiple levels of health care in Canada by providing a method for ordinary citizens to purchase extra levels of care if they desire?

I likely would have had to wait 4-5 months to get the surgery I needed in Canada. Do you think a professional athlete (insert random Toronto Maple Leaf here) would have to do the same? Or does he get preferential treatment? How is that situation being at the mercy of fate?

[DanSC]

CKASlacker wrote:

Do you think a professional athlete (insert random Toronto Maple Leaf here) would have to do the same? Or does he get preferential treatment? How is that situation being at the mercy of fate?

Interesting thought. Do the Canadian NHL teams maintain their own medical staffs like the American teams, or would that be illegal?

[CKASlacker]

DanSC wrote:

CKASlacker wrote:

Do you think a professional athlete (insert random Toronto Maple Leaf here) would have to do the same? Or does he get preferential treatment? How is that situation being at the mercy of fate?

Interesting thought. Do the Canadian NHL teams maintain their own medical staffs like the American teams, or would that be illegal?

I'm quite certain they do, although how that jives with universal care in Canada I'm not quite sure.

A few years back there was a stink raised when a Toronto Raptor got same-day service for an MRI while the rest of us need to wait 2-3 months for the same. I can't recall how that was justified.

[raydan]

CKASlacker wrote:

DanSC wrote:

CKASlacker wrote:

Do you think a professional athlete (insert random Toronto Maple Leaf here) would have to do the same? Or does he get preferential treatment? How is that situation being at the mercy of fate?

Interesting thought. Do the Canadian NHL teams maintain their own medical staffs like the American teams, or would that be illegal?

I'm quite certain they do, although how that jives with universal care in Canada I'm not quite sure.

A few years back there was a stink raised when a Toronto Raptor got same-day service for an MRI while the rest of us need to wait 2-3 months for the same. I can't recall how that was justified.

Aren't there private labs (Biron here in Québec) that can do MRI's and such... for a price? Very popular for those that have the money, or private insurance at their job.

[DrCaleb]

raydan wrote:

CKASlacker wrote:

DanSC wrote:

Interesting thought. Do the Canadian NHL teams maintain their own medical staffs like the American teams, or would that be illegal?

I'm quite certain they do, although how that jives with universal care in Canada I'm not quite sure.

A few years back there was a stink raised when a Toronto Raptor got same-day service for an MRI while the rest of us need to wait 2-3 months for the same. I can't recall how that was justified.

Aren't there private labs (Biron here in Québec) that can do MRI's and such... for a price? Very popular for those that have the money, or private insurance at their job.

In Alberta, many MRIs are owned by private clinics/ labs, and the government buys time from the clinic. You can buy time too and skip the line, or you can wait for an appointment and have the government pay. The lines are pretty short too, a few days for diagnostic MRIs, immediate for emergencies.

[DanSC]

DrCaleb wrote:

The lines are pretty short too, a few days for diagnostic MRIs, immediate for emergencies.

In Alberta

[Teikiatsu]

andyt wrote:

Yeah, let's be happy. I mean fuck the people that can't afford coverage in the US, or that are denied because of a preexisting condition, or that are forced into bankruptcy by costs. As long as you're OK, why the hell should the state worry abuot anybody else.

Sure, how else am I supposed to get my jollies when there are no babies to punch or old men to push into traffic?

By the way:

US Population in 2011: 320,000,000
Number that applied for coverage they didn't previously have due to pre-existing conditions: 8,000

Percentage that didn't have coverage prior to 2011: 0.0025%

But a trillion dollars into an inefficient government program (redundancy alert) was totally worth it.

[Teikiatsu]

DrCaleb wrote:

In Alberta, many MRIs are owned by private clinics/ labs, and the government buys time from the clinic. You can buy time too and skip the line, or you can wait for an appointment and have the government pay. The lines are pretty short too, a few days for diagnostic MRIs, immediate for emergencies.

Buy time to skip the line? Those damn rich bastards.

[DrCaleb]

DanSC wrote:

DrCaleb wrote:

The lines are pretty short too, a few days for diagnostic MRIs, immediate for emergencies.

In Alberta

Horses don't fit in MRIs.

[Psudo]

Vets take MRIs of racehorses sometimes using special equipment.

[DanSC]

I was going for more of a "Of course there are no wait times in rural areas" vibe (Calgary and Edmonton excluded, Carson and Pincher Creek included)

[DrCaleb]

DanSC wrote:

I was going for more of a "Of course there are no wait times in rural areas" vibe (Calgary and Edmonton excluded, Carson and Pincher Creek included)

If you'd like to donate an MRI machine and lab techs for Pincer Creek or High River that would see one use in 5 years, by all means. We don't have that kind of money to waste.

That's something we living in rural areas accept as a trade off for the big skys and quiet. Besides, I still got my emergency MRI as soon as I drove to Edmonton. No waiting, even though it was 10 at night.