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PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 5:37 pm
 


JJ wrote:
Mustang1, you are bad at arguing and bad at writing. You've been conducting yourself in a truly awful way, constantly insulting and belittling others, and making all sorts of chauvinistic personal attacks. I don't really have an interest in debating this issue any more with you, because you are clearly living in your own little world where logic can be constantly bent to serve your needs as circumstances dictate.

Here are my final responses:
Quote:
If we move to actual political parallels (from property rights, unborn rights, Meech or Charlottetown or even Robinson's failed attempt to alter the Charter's preamble) then which are events that impact Canada and are significantly important, socially, economically or politically, then the picture becomes clear that mega-constitutional amendments on par (and some don't even meet the enormity) with removing the constitutional-monarchy aren't generally successful nor are resolved quickly.

And while you're sullying Canadian history, why not explain the amending process for changing the monarchy? Hint...it's quite encompassing and you failed to address it in your thinly veiled attempt to stack the deck.


You read the Wikipedia page on amending the Canadian constitution, I see. That's the only reason why you would mention Svend Robinson's "attempt" to amend it, which would not be noted on any legitimate research site, so inconsequential was the effort.

I think it's very possible that the politicians will screw up a constitutional amendment to abolish the monarchy, and make the issue far more complex than it needs to be. But I do believe that it is equally possible for the matter to be resolved quickly and easily. Maybe I am just insane, but I can absolutely imagine the passage of ten referendums in ten provinces, providing the question was a simple "monarchy, yes or no" type thing. Obviously not all ten referendums would pass by 90% margins, but I can still easily imagine all ten passing. The polls are very much on the anti-monarchy side.

Quote:
So have i and i gave 2 simple ones already and i also am curious why you consistently dodge the challenge of giving some concrete examples from the last 1/2 century where the constitutional monarch has egregiously overstepped her constitutionally mandated bounds thus forcing a mega-constitutional showdown.


I believe this is what we call a "straw man" argument. I don't recall ever making the point that the monarchy was bad because it did evil, aggressive things and destabilized the Canadian political system. In fact, I made precisely the opposite point: the monarchy does not do anything, and the fact that it doesn't do what it is supposed to do, and promises to do, is one of its major flaws as an institution.

The monarchy does not unify the country, protect democracy, or serve as a check on executive power, despite promising to do all of these things. It is also serves as a symbol of many negative values Canadians do not want associated with their country, such as colonialism and hereditary privilege.

Quote:
Really? He got dealt with rather easily as he failed to concede the fact that these simple incidents (quite obvious ones, really) were clear cases where the constitutional monarch did indeed carry out her duties and not only that, he didn't even address it in its proper context.


This is a very very stupid point. By your logic, every single time a bill is signed into law in Canada it is proof that the monarchy "works" because a very superficial Crown "duty" is being carried out. The monarchy's usefulness is thus automatically presumed so long as the Crown is able to perform some random gesture somewhere in the constitutional process. The monarchy would still "work" and your entire line of reasoning would still be valid even if the "Crown" was some bed-ridden Irish Settler who simply had to glance in the direction of a bill before it became legally binding. At some point in a democratic society the people have a right to stand up and say "I don't like this way of doing things anymore."

I'm finished.


MELTDOWN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Image

Nice meltdown JJ!


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 5:39 pm
 


JJ wrote:
Mustang1, you are bad at arguing and bad at writing. You've been conducting yourself in a truly awful way, constantly insulting and belittling others, and making all sorts of chauvinistic personal attacks. I don't really have an interest in debating this issue any more with you, because you are clearly living in your own little world where logic can be constantly bent to serve your needs as circumstances dictate.

Here are my final responses:
Quote:
If we move to actual political parallels (from property rights, unborn rights, Meech or Charlottetown or even Robinson's failed attempt to alter the Charter's preamble) then which are events that impact Canada and are significantly important, socially, economically or politically, then the picture becomes clear that mega-constitutional amendments on par (and some don't even meet the enormity) with removing the constitutional-monarchy aren't generally successful nor are resolved quickly.

And while you're sullying Canadian history, why not explain the amending process for changing the monarchy? Hint...it's quite encompassing and you failed to address it in your thinly veiled attempt to stack the deck.


You read the Wikipedia page on amending the Canadian constitution, I see. That's the only reason why you would mention Svend Robinson's "attempt" to amend it, which would not be noted on any legitimate research site, so inconsequential was the effort.

I think it's very possible that the politicians will screw up a constitutional amendment to abolish the monarchy, and make the issue far more complex than it needs to be. But I do believe that it is equally possible for the matter to be resolved quickly and easily. Maybe I am just insane, but I can absolutely imagine the passage of ten referendums in ten provinces, providing the question was a simple "monarchy, yes or no" type thing. Obviously not all ten referendums would pass by 90% margins, but I can still easily imagine all ten passing. The polls are very much on the anti-monarchy side.

Quote:
So have i and i gave 2 simple ones already and i also am curious why you consistently dodge the challenge of giving some concrete examples from the last 1/2 century where the constitutional monarch has egregiously overstepped her constitutionally mandated bounds thus forcing a mega-constitutional showdown.


I believe this is what we call a "straw man" argument. I don't recall ever making the point that the monarchy was bad because it did evil, aggressive things and destabilized the Canadian political system. In fact, I made precisely the opposite point: the monarchy does not do anything, and the fact that it doesn't do what it is supposed to do, and promises to do, is one of its major flaws as an institution.

The monarchy does not unify the country, protect democracy, or serve as a check on executive power, despite promising to do all of these things. It is also serves as a symbol of many negative values Canadians do not want associated with their country, such as colonialism and hereditary privilege.

Quote:
Really? He got dealt with rather easily as he failed to concede the fact that these simple incidents (quite obvious ones, really) were clear cases where the constitutional monarch did indeed carry out her duties and not only that, he didn't even address it in its proper context.


This is a very very stupid point. By your logic, every single time a bill is signed into law in Canada it is proof that the monarchy "works" because a very superficial Crown "duty" is being carried out. The monarchy's usefulness is thus automatically presumed so long as the Crown is able to perform some random gesture somewhere in the constitutional process. The monarchy would still "work" and your entire line of reasoning would still be valid even if the "Crown" was some bed-ridden Irish Settler who simply had to glance in the direction of a bill before it became legally binding. At some point in a democratic society the people have a right to stand up and say "I don't like this way of doing things anymore."

I'm finished.


Meltdown! I guess I hit pretty close to the mark for that little tantrum, huh?

Finished? Did you ever get started? Since you saw it fit to hypocritically attack me, i'll respond in kind. JJ, you're a piss-poor debater (projecting again? Bad JJ) who misinterprets facts, misrepresents points, fumbles history and retreats to argumentative fallacies to prop up an amateurish agenda. Your rather obvious desire to establish an American-style republic has hindered your ability to objectively examine the issue and even pushes to you ignore points to the contrary – that’s pure busleague and it speaks volumes about your character (as does the crybaby fit). In short, you're a wannabe political pundit desperately looking for relevance. The fact that all you can muster is banality and undergrad worthy empty prattle is proof positive that you'll only matter to political neophytes, the informed, the converted and the chronically unaware. You’re the poster boy for the angry, underemployed, frustrated, and listless subculture that thinks just because they barfed out a blog, they’re an integral part of the junior intelligentsia. How sad.

Oh...and worst concession post in long time. Stick to cartoons. Stick to intellectual masturbation. Stick to finding gainful employment. Stick to getting a haircut. And stick to whiny suicide posts because maybe, just maybe, you’ve found your true calling.

There’s a corner somewhere missing a suck - go find it.

Done.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 6:29 pm
 


Reading over JJ's posts, I think I understand him.

He grew up poor. He looks on the world not with the eyes of the sympathetic, but of the envious. He's not anti-elitist, he's anti-money.

Well JJ, here's some bad news. I didn't grow up poor. I grew up rather bloody comfortable. I went to Leaf games, because we could afford it. When I was done playing NHL 94 (on Sega CD bitches!), I didn't re-arrange the rosters to update for the off-season, I went and bought NHL 95. Does that make you mad? I didn't have to tape movies off the television; we bought them. That's right, no fast-forwarding through Short Circuit to watch the Goonies! I could put in either tape and enjoy them both. I know you wore your burlap shorts or potato sack shirt or plastic-mesh RC Cola hat, but I had Vaurnet (I know you know what it is) or Roots. Fuck, I even had Northern Reflections shirts, just cause.

And even now, I don't eat anything but T-bones, back ribs or prime rib roasts, I drive my 2010 car, I wear a shit load of name-brands and I listen to music I can buy easily on my iPhone. I don't struggle to find some shithole nobody band and hype them because it makes me seem original, I listen to the Stone Temple Pilots and then I switch to Katy Perry, because they appeal to me and they write good damn songs.

I don't go to your shitty micro-breweries. I stock my fridge with Coors Light and Bud Light Lime, because they're good-tasting popular beers.

While you're downloading shows because you're too poor for cable, I'm watching 'em on my big-screen. While you're buying 5 for $10 ripped movies, no worries, I'm seeing them in the theater and paying the higher prices for both of us, just cause I can afford it.

I go to full-serve gas-stations too. For a nickel a litre, you can pump my gas. I'm too busy not being you.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 6:41 pm
 


EyeBrock wrote:
Anarchy in the UK mate!



Hey!! can I join in......

Long live the Queen, now, as to prince Charles????


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 6:44 pm
 


Dayseed wrote:
I went to Leaf games, because we could afford it.

Man, your parents really did have money to waste, didn't they?


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 6:59 pm
 


Time for cooler heads

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 1:28 am
 


Yes many of recent posts have had far too much personal attacking in them...


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