[Kjorteo]

Well, Huntsman did have that "guys, quit it with this anti-science crap, we're never going to win if independents see us as the 'Bible says the Earth is flat, that's good enough for me' party" moment among the GOP primary debates, but that just made him completely unelectable. These are the same voters who turned on Perry of all people for the one or two not-bloodthirsty things he's ever done, after all.

[Psudo]

I like Huntsman, but he was never electable.

Also, I was under the impression that Perry was losing ground because he was a terrible speaker at the debates. What "not-bloodthirsty" things are you referring to?

[Kjorteo]

Well, even though she's fairly unelectable at this point as well, Michelle Bachmann does appear to have actually scored a solid blow against Perry (by their audience's standards) with the whole HPV vaccine thing.

[Brenda]

Funny, I just had my 11-year old vaccinated yesterday against the HVP-virus. I thought that was a good thing to do since I was diagnosed with an early stage of cervical cancer when I was pregnant with my first born, who btw got vaccinated too.
She only has a stiff arm (weird, 3 shots at the same time ), so I guess I just blew a hole in her argument.

Bachmann's argument is one that the anti-vaccination crowd uses for EVERY vaccination. I have heard it since before my kids were born, and I am sure it existed when my mom first got pregnant. Measles, Pox, Meningococcal, ALL these vaccines have the same arguments against them.

[Psudo]

Kjorteo wrote:

Well, even though she's fairly unelectable at this point as well, Michelle Bachmann does appear to have actually scored a solid blow against Perry (by their audience's standards) with the whole HPV vaccine thing.

My impression was that she became unelectable because she falsely claimed he was forcing girls to get vaccinated when, in fact, parents could opt-out.

Brenda wrote:

Bachmann's argument is one that the anti-vaccination crowd uses for EVERY vaccination.

I think there's an extra wrinkle in vaccinating pre-teens for a sexually transmitted disease. Abstinence or safe sex practices can prevent HPV just as well with no chance of side effects. It seems like a valid pro-choice/reproductive rights issue to me, though the choice should usually be for vaccination.

[Brenda]

Psudo wrote:

Brenda wrote:

Bachmann's argument is one that the anti-vaccination crowd uses for EVERY vaccination.

I think there's an extra wrinkle in vaccinating pre-teens for a sexually transmitted disease. Abstinence or safe sex practices can prevent HPV just as well with no chance of side effects. It seems like a valid pro-choice/reproductive rights issue to me, though the choice should usually be for vaccination.

Exactly. So her agenda was not the child that got "retarded", but the "no sex before marriage"-lecture.
I didn't explain explicitly what all the shots they got were for, and they don't care. They know (already) that sex is done with a condom, or not.
I am pretty sure they do not see the HPV shot (at 11, come on) as a free-be to have unprotected sex because "now nothing can happen, I'm vaccinated".

I was 25 when I was diagnosed, 7 weeks pregnant, and about to get married (OHHH!!!! I WAS PREGNANT BEFORE I GOT MARRIED!! Yep, actually, for the second time, first one was a miscarriage) and that diagnose could have been prevented if I had gotten the shot (if it would have existed back then ).

Most carriers of the HPV virus do not know they have it.

I am doing every thing I can to prevent my kids from getting sick, I vaccinate them against pox, rhubella etc, why not this? They don't live in a bubble.

[Murray_Smith]

Psudo wrote:

Murray_Smith wrote:

Catholicism is basically paganism with Christian labels

I'm not convinced that's a criticism at all.

I didn't really mean it as such; it was more of an indirect insult against those who equate paganism with moral inferiority. When I spoke of playing up the paganism, I meant to attract naïve young people into their ranks. For Jesus.

Psudo wrote:

Christianity with pagan influences isn't any worse than Christianity with patriotic influences (like so many orthodox churches or American protestants) or ethnic influences (like black churches). The fact that many Christians interact with cultures outside of Christianity isn't a bad thing, nor is the fact that Catholicism is the most influenced as a result of being the oldest.

True.