[Newsbot]

Filibuster Cartoons
Title: Sacred Ground Zero (click to view)
Date: August 9, 2010
Last week, New York City's Landmark's Commission approved a key measure that will allow construction to begin on the so-called "Ground Zero Mosque." The mosque, which will not actually be on Ground Zero, merely close to it, and is not really a mosque at all, but rather a multi-story "Islamic cultural center," has stirred up all sorts of culture-war tension between the right and left. Many prominent Republicans have come out against the center's construction, calling it an offensive, provocative corruption of the memory of 9-11, and the Islamic character of the crime. Many liberals, by contrast, including Mayor Bloomberg, have fully endorsed the proposed building, saying that a spiritual, educational center for self-described moderate American Muslims is exactly what New Yorkers need to move beyond 9-11, and any lingering feelings of interfaith distrust it may have provoked.

Though I do think it's important to remember 9-11 as an act of terrorism with explicitly Islamist motivations, it seems a bit absurdly petty and vindictive to decree that henceforth no Muslim anything is allowed anywhere near Ground Zero, period. American Muslims are a fact of life in New York, after all. Some even died on September 11. If our goal truly is, as President Bush used to always say, to foster productive relationships with moderate Islam at the expense of the radicals, then how is alienating the moderates in this situation anything less than thoroughly counter-productive?

I can likewise understand the desire to keep Ground Zero sacred and shrine-like, but that dream was abandoned ages ago. The latest plans, after all, include the construction of a massive five-floor shopping mall on the attack site. I somehow doubt we're going to have a store-by-store debate over which trashy franchise best "honors the memories of the victims."

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[Freakinoldguy]

Actually when you think about it the left wing Pro Mosque groups may have a point.

By putting up things like Buger Kings and a shopping mall at ground zero the Americans appear to be pandering to what some consider to be a uniquely American religion. The one of excess, commercialism and corporate profit.

So, if instead of a Mosque the Muslims put up a falafel stand they might get more sympathy for their cause.

[N_Fiddledog]

Good opinion piece today from a couple of moderate Muslims at the Ottawa Citizen.

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/Misch ... story.html

Personally, I think the solution is simple. Put a church, and Christian community center on top of the memorial at actual Ground Zero.

[commanderkai]

I think part of the frustration is that it feels like nothing is being built on Ground Zero. Oh sure there are plans, but really, it still seems like an unhealed scar. Having something like the Muslim community center or whatever (I still think it's being built right there just to piss people off, but that's just me) isn't the main issue, but it's more of a frustration that there isn't a massive skyscraper memorial that fills the large gap in the New York skyline.

There are already 90 or so mosques/Muslim religious buildings across the New York City area, and, if it was a a couple of blocks away from Ground Zero, nobody would give a damn about another. But this building is like putting a half cracked salt dispenser near to a wound that's still isn't really healed up.

[EyeBrock]

This whole mosque thing is not going to build any bridges for Islam in the US.

Even the name 'Cordoba' has negative connotations , harking back to the Islamic conquest of Spain.

Nothing good will come out of this.

[Quantum_Wizard]

commanderkai wrote:

There are already 90 or so mosques/Muslim religious buildings across the New York City area, and, if it was a a couple of blocks away from Ground Zero, nobody would give a damn about another.

You are quite wrong. The building is planned to be two blocks away but people quite clearly do give a damn.

[commanderkai]

Quantum_Wizard wrote:

commanderkai wrote:

There are already 90 or so mosques/Muslim religious buildings across the New York City area, and, if it was a a couple of blocks away from Ground Zero, nobody would give a damn about another.

You are quite wrong. The building is planned to be two blocks away but people quite clearly do give a damn.

I meant a couple of more blocks away. Sorry.

[Dayseed]

EyeBrock wrote:

This whole mosque thing is not going to build any bridges for Islam in the US.

Even the name 'Cordoba' has negative connotations , harking back to the Islamic conquest of Spain.

Nothing good will come out of this.

I doubt the average New Yorker walking past the centre would look at it and say "Cordoba? Those sneaky Spanish conquering bastards!"

[EyeBrock]

Dayseed wrote:

EyeBrock wrote:

This whole mosque thing is not going to build any bridges for Islam in the US.

Even the name 'Cordoba' has negative connotations , harking back to the Islamic conquest of Spain.

Nothing good will come out of this.

I doubt the average New Yorker walking past the centre would look at it and say "Cordoba? Those sneaky Spanish conquering bastards!"

But the people who named it are well aware of it's meaning Dayseed. As in it's not quite what it seems.

[xerxes]

But then again, the histroy of Cordoba during the Morrish occupation of Spain is a model of religious tolerance. It was after the Reconquista that Cordoba became unfriendly to non-Christian faiths.

[Quantum_Wizard]

commanderkai wrote:

Quantum_Wizard wrote:

commanderkai wrote:

There are already 90 or so mosques/Muslim religious buildings across the New York City area, and, if it was a a couple of blocks away from Ground Zero, nobody would give a damn about another.

You are quite wrong. The building is planned to be two blocks away but people quite clearly do give a damn.

I meant a couple of more blocks away. Sorry.

Ah, well that makes more sense.

[Dayseed]

Well Eyebrock, we may have to disagree on this one. I don't see any relevance in the name, any more so than I would with Alamo car-rental operating shops in San Antonio.

I think dwelling on this one looking for sinister connections is Glenn Beck territory.

[N_Fiddledog]

Here's an announcement from Greg Gutfeld - the Red Eye guy on Fox.

Quote:

I'm announcing tonight, that I am planning to build and open the first gay bar that caters not only to the west, but also Islamic gay men. To best express my sincere desire for dialogue, the bar will be situated next to the mosque Park51, in an available commercial space.

This is not a joke. I've already spoken to a number of investors, who have pledged their support in this bipartisan bid for understanding and tolerance.

As you know, the Muslim faith doesn't look kindly upon homosexuality, which is why I'm building this bar. It is an effort to break down barriers and reduce deadly homophobia in the Islamic world.

The goal, however, is not simply to open a typical gay bar, but one friendly to men of Islamic faith. An entire floor, for example, will feature non-alcoholic drinks, since booze is forbidden by the faith. The bar will be open all day and night, to accommodate men who would rather keep their sexuality under wraps - but still want to dance.

http://www.dailygut.com/?i=4696

[xerxes]

Oh? The bitch who thought it was funny to crack jokes on a day when four Canadian soldiers died in Afghanisan?

Edit: His idea isn't funny, clever, or even satirical. It's simply and totally childish.

[commanderkai]

Dayseed wrote:

Well Eyebrock, we may have to disagree on this one. I don't see any relevance in the name, any more so than I would with Alamo car-rental operating shops in San Antonio.

The Alamo is seen by Texans as a part of their local history and it instills pride and ideals about individuality and freedom. Why would San Antonio residents have an issue with that?