[BartSimpson]

C.M. Burns wrote:

More important than that, however, is Palin's No Abortion Under Any Circumstance/Women Do Not Have the Right to Choose policy. I guess American women are heading back to the back-allies and clothes hangers.

The US Supreme Court is not about to overturn Roe v. Wade but most of the pro-life people in the US would be content if the Federal government simply stopped subsidizing abortion.

[Jabrwock]

BartSimpson wrote:

Alaska in general has very few shiny vehicles at all. And they have a word for SUV's up there that don't have any rust or any dents: New.

I've been up there enough to know that if the woman has an SUV up there then she really needs it and she really uses it for its bad weather and rough road capabilities.

Ok, just so this is clear, because I had hoped I was clearer earlier. I frankly don't care what kind of car Palin drives, although since she's in big with the oil companies I doubt it's fuel efficient, whatever it is.

What I'm trying to conjure up here, is the image I have in my head. Not the image the Reps want me to see, of a small-town, down-to-earth, protector of the right. Instead I've got the image of a stuck-up, elitist, holier-than-thou, fashion-obsessed woman who can't wait to tell you why she's better than you.

It has nothing to do with where she's from, what her background is, or what she stands for. It's just the image I get in my head whenever I see and hear her speeches as of late.

Focusing on whether she really DOES drive an SUV is missing the point I was trying to make.

Perhaps I should have used the term "Soccer Mom" instead. Then would you get the same image I'm getting?

[BartSimpson]

avro wrote:

Something I predicted, Americans want more of the same mess as opposed to something different.

The problem with Obama is that even his closest supporters have no idea what he has actually accomplished in his terms in office. He makes a lot of promises, then goes back on them depending on who he's talking to and that's getting him in trouble, too. And then there's the women in the Dem party who are ticked off that they didn't have their voices heard in a roll-call vote at the DNC and that's costing him. Then there's the people who feel lied to by his whole "CHANGE" mantra when he turns around and brings on a party flack like Biden for his VP instead of someone from outside the party machinery he's said he wants to change.

So I'm not so sure if what you see are people who want more of the same but that you're seeing a lot of people protesting against the Dem party hierarchy and you're seeing people starting to question Obama on his substance instead of blindly accepting him as "The Anointed One".

In a nutshell, I don't think people are supporting McCain so much as they are consciously not supporting Obama.

If Obama can pull his bacon out of the fire his numbers may improve, myself, I doubt it will happen as with his numbers eroding the media will smell blood and start giving traction to some of the issues in Obama's past such as his friendship with the terrorist Willam Ayers.

Also, the attacks on Palin are not hitting home because she comes off as very wholesome, she enjoys an over 80% approval rating in Alaska, and she gets a lot of sympathy from Democrat moms for her having a pregnant daughter and an infant with Down's Syndrome. Even when it miight be true, criticism of Palin has a tendency to come off as mean spirited. Obama did make a good move by making Palin's family off-limits for discussion - I'm sure that move helped him with women voters.

[BartSimpson]

Jabrwock wrote:

Ok, just so this is clear, because I had hoped I was clearer earlier. I frankly don't care what kind of car Palin drives, although since she's in big with the oil companies I doubt it's fuel efficient, whatever it is.

What I'm trying to conjure up here, is the image I have in my head. Not the image the Reps want me to see, of a small-town, down-to-earth, protector of the right. Instead I've got the image of a stuck-up, elitist, holier-than-thou, fashion-obsessed woman who can't wait to tell you why she's better than you.

It has nothing to do with where she's from, what her background is, or what she stands for. It's just the image I get in my head whenever I see and hear her speeches as of late.

Focusing on whether she really DOES drive an SUV is missing the point I was trying to make.

Perhaps I should have used the term "Soccer Mom" instead. Then would you get the same image I'm getting?

Have you ever been to Alaska for any length of time? Because you're thinking of a class of women who simply do not exist in Alaska. There are no powder-puffs up there.

I doubt my words will help you get past your impression, but I assure you it's wrong. She could not have hit an 86% approval rating in Alaska (of all places) by being an elitist or a fashion plate. That she is suddenly wearing designer clothes is the responsibility of the McCain campaign and the RNC dressing the woman up for a national stage.

At least be fair to her, eh?

[Jabrwock]

BartSimpson wrote:

Have you ever been to Alaska for any length of time? Because you're thinking of a class of women who simply do not exist in Alaska. There are no powder-puffs up there.... That she is suddenly wearing designer clothes is the responsibility of the McCain campaign and the RNC dressing the woman up for a national stage.

Again, you're focusing on the little things (her clothes). I'm seeing in her MANY common features with the "soccer moms". Whether this stereotype exists in Alaska or only in my head is irrelevant. The tone of speech, the attitude, the dress, the opinion, the reaction to questions, etc. The whole package. It may be incorrect, but I guess I'll partly credit the RNC handlers who decided that it was a good idea to present her this way.

Am I the only one who's baffled at why they're treating her as a celeb, just days after finishing whining that Obama's being treated as one?

Quote:

At least be fair to her, eh?

I've already touched on many of her *actual* flaws. I'm just voicing the impression I got from watching her speeches of late.

[Murray_Smith]

BartSimpson wrote:

Then there's the people who feel lied to by his whole "CHANGE" mantra when he turns around and brings on a party flack like Biden for his VP instead of someone from outside the party machinery he's said he wants to change.

My impression of Biden is that he's the set of teeth that Obama's campaign needs.

Quote:

In a nutshell, I don't think people are supporting McCain so much as they are consciously not supporting Obama.

That echoes a sentiment I read in a Mallard Fillmore comic strip: the titular character states that he's "holding his nose and voting for McCain."

Quote:

Obama did make a good move by making Palin's family off-limits for discussion - I'm sure that move helped him with women voters.

I find that move to be very "turn-the-other-cheek," considering the heat Obama took for his association with Reverend Wright.

[Jabrwock]

Murray_Smith wrote:

I find that move to be very "turn-the-other-cheek," considering the heat Obama took for his association with Reverend Wright.

Throughout the campaign I've felt that the Dems are for the most part taking his "keep it clean" mantra to heart. Look at many speeches. "McCain is honourable but...", "McCain is a good guy but", "McCain is a great hero but", "McCain is a good friend but". Reps on the other hand, well... McCain may want to run a clean campaign, but his followers aren't listening. Spitting on community organizers is just too much fun...

[CanadianJeff]

"The US Supreme Court is not about to overturn Roe v. Wade but most of the pro-life people in the US would be content if the Federal government simply stopped subsidizing abortion."

You know I've seen it argued as well that the government has a responsibility to fund abortion in cases of rape or danger to the womans health to ensure freedom of choice in life threatning or forced pregnancy situations.

Just throwing out the fact that it doesn't matter who you really talk to everyone has a line somewhere. Just don't be surprised if the real line drawn in the sand isn't yours.

[Psudo]

CanadianJeff wrote:

You know I've seen it argued as well that the government has a responsibility to fund abortion in cases of rape or danger to the womans health to ensure freedom of choice in life threatning or forced pregnancy situations.

I'm even OK with gov. funding for abortion in such emergency cases so long as it's not funded for the other 9 million annual abortions in the USA.

[CanadianJeff]

absolutly the same case here. I just hate how it seems to be either abortion on demand or demand to outlaw abortion. Frankly I think there is a middle line here and I really hate how everyone jumps to the extremes on this issue.

Your either pro-life or pro-choice. in or out. good or evil. I just wish some people would wake up and realize abortion is like anything else. It's not black and white.