[Psudo]

On Feb. 13th, my state (Utah, USA) just signed into law the largest school voucher program in the USA. (I suspect in Canada as well.) Info from local paper the Salt Lake Tribune, the East Valley Tribune from nearby Arizona, the conservative rag Human Events, and liberal lobbyist group People For the American Way. The government will pay (from it's general fund, not the education fund) between US$500 and $3,000 per student (based on family income) of the cost of private schooling. Thus, advocates say, students (and their families) now have greater freedom in choosing what schools they wish to attend, being partially freed from economic restrictions. Opponents say it will damage government-run schools and allow wacky fringe groups to run propaganda schools at government expense, thus hurting education in general.

Your thoughts?

[JJ]

It's interesting to note that in many parts of Canada the government already funds Christian schools with tax dollars, so this tends to be less of a debate north of the border.

[hurley_108]

Thing is, even when the government standardizes testing, like here in Alberta (among other places I'm sure), at private schools there's still an incredible amount of leeway as to how the material is taught. This may sound like a good thing at first, but students are sometimes hurt by it (I speak from personal experience). I would hate to think that government money is spent on a flawed education for sake of some small group's economic ideologies.

If parents want to gamble with their kids' educations, I'm not really sure we can stop that altogether, but I don't want the government bankrolling it.

[Psudo]

hurley_108 wrote:

Thing is, even when the government standardizes testing, like here in Alberta (among other places I'm sure), at private schools there's still an incredible amount of leeway as to how the material is taught. This may sound like a good thing at first, but students are sometimes hurt by it (I speak from personal experience). I would hate to think that government money is spent on a flawed education for sake of some small group's economic ideologies.

If parents want to gamble with their kids' educations, I'm not really sure we can stop that altogether, but I don't want the government bankrolling it.

Yes, private schools are a gamble. But so are public schools. There are plenty of lousy public schools around and it's not necessarily the best course to tie students to a particular school because of a coincidence of address and lack of an alternative school system. The question is not whether private schools are a risk but whether they are a greater risk.

(A note: in the USA, "public school" refers to government-run schools and "private school" refers to any other schools. This conflicts with the British terminology, and probably that of other nations as well.)

[ejacksonian]

I don't think we should have school vouchers. I think all schools should be funded by taxes, INCLUDING private schools.

[Tricks]

hurley_108 wrote:

Thing is, even when the government standardizes testing, like here in Alberta (among other places I'm sure), at private schools there's still an incredible amount of leeway as to how the material is taught. This may sound like a good thing at first, but students are sometimes hurt by it (I speak from personal experience). I would hate to think that government money is spent on a flawed education for sake of some small group's economic ideologies.

If parents want to gamble with their kids' educations, I'm not really sure we can stop that altogether, but I don't want the government bankrolling it.

The Private school I attend certainly doesn't affect my education negatively. I would say my school is actually harder then Public schools, yet I still get higher marks here. Interesting no?

[Pitchfork]

I'm all for school vouchers. I'm definitely for some form of school choice. American public schools desperately need competition.

[hurley_108]

Tricks wrote:

hurley_108 wrote:

Thing is, even when the government standardizes testing, like here in Alberta (among other places I'm sure), at private schools there's still an incredible amount of leeway as to how the material is taught. This may sound like a good thing at first, but students are sometimes hurt by it (I speak from personal experience). I would hate to think that government money is spent on a flawed education for sake of some small group's economic ideologies.

If parents want to gamble with their kids' educations, I'm not really sure we can stop that altogether, but I don't want the government bankrolling it.

The Private school I attend certainly doesn't affect my education negatively. I would say my school is actually harder then Public schools, yet I still get higher marks here. Interesting no?

But if a private school is needlessly hard, to the point where a student would do better if he or she were taught the standard curriculum, then there's something wrong. I know someone who went to a hard private school and wound up less than a percent below the cutoff for acceptance into engineering. This person is not stupid. This person is quick and intelligent, but the school's teaching style just wasn't compatible, and this person suffered for it.

I do not want schools teaching in arbitrary ways, potentially harming students, placating parents' petty whims, and doing it all on the government's dime.

[Tricks]

lily wrote:

Not really. Private schools have the luxury of picking and choosing who they accept as students.

My school doesn't though. It takes all comers. Most Private schools will take all people. Unless they are top boarding school style ones.

Quote:

Public schools take everyone - ESL, those with behavioural/learning disabilities, high achievers and those who just barely squeak by.

Point?

Quote:

Private school isn't necessarily harder, it's just different.

Different because the teachers actually give a flying fuck. Public schools is just another face and more money.

Quote:

During the last round of assessments, the elementary school my kids attend beat out the private Catholic school by a long shot.

Elementary? Whoo pee. 95% of the shit in elementary school you can learn by yourself. I know from experience that going from a Public to a private school, Private is easier to learn, teachers are better, and they actually care. Most public school teachers don't care.

[Tricks]

hurley_108 wrote:

But if a private school is needlessly hard, to the point where a student would do better if he or she were taught the standard curriculum, then there's something wrong.

It isn't needlessly hard. Public schools now are getting to the point where they are not teaching kids what they need to know. For instance, My English teacher taught us how to write properly at a university level. He also said, every single person who comes from the Public school I went to is a bad writer. They are taught wrong there.

Quote:

I know someone who went to a hard private school and wound up less than a percent below the cutoff for acceptance into engineering.

Point? Engineering is a high acceptance average. I know, my brother is in engineering right now. Do youi think he would have done better at Public school? Don't count on it. Public school wouldn't have taught him the necessary skills that he needed, and I bet the private school did.

Quote:

This person is not stupid. This person is quick and intelligent, but the school's teaching style just wasn't compatible, and this person suffered for it.

Teaching style? Cop-out. Period.

Quote:

I do not want schools teaching in arbitrary ways, potentially harming students, placating parents' petty whims, and doing it all on the government's dime.

If that's what you think Private schools are like, then you are sadly mistaken.

[hurley_108]

Tricks wrote:

Teaching style? Cop-out. Period.

Fuck you. Do not dare presume to know more than me about the personal circumstances of those near and dear to me.

[Tricks]

lily wrote:

The local private school "suggested" some students stay home on the day of the assessment exams. I wonder why they'd do that?

And that suddenly reflects ALL private schools?

Quote:

Seriously? I thought that was rather obvious.
Public schools can't turn anyone away, except in extreme cases, so the overall outcome for the school reflects everyone, not just the gifted.

Private schools are far from only gifted. If you have the money, then you can go to a private school "except in extreme cases." For instance, my school has some of the most retarded people I have ever met. 80% of the people at my school were expelled from Public schools. They are idiots. But they still learn shit here because the Teachers take the time to teach them and don't brush them off as a bad student. Me, a grade 12 90s student in grade 10 was brushed off as a 70s student.

Quote:

Bullshit.

Then you don't know Public highschools very well. Just you wait.

Quote:

And yet a lot of kids struggle. They must be really stoopid, eh?

No. They just don't take the time to learn it. I didn't either.

Quote:

Most? And you know this how?

I have gone through both systems. As has my brother AND my sister. All different teachers. Sorry you can't see what is right in front of you. A friend of the family, 3 kids, saw exactly the same thing. Wake up for fucks sake.

[Tricks]

hurley_108 wrote:

Tricks wrote:

Teaching style? Cop-out. Period.

Fuck you. Do not dare presume to know more than me about the personal circumstances of those near and dear to me.

Sorry buddy, but if he said it was the teaching style, he is full of shite. Teaching style plays a part, but not the only part of the teacher. I have been taught by a very wide variety of teachers with different styles and it never made a difference. As an added note, if it was only one teacher, retake the course with a different one. It isn't hard. I have been taught by some 20 different teachers all with different styles. It depended on my working as well as the teacher. If the teacher taught like shit, but I worked my ass off, I still did well.

[USCAdad]

I don't have time this morning to get into this too much... I have some schooling for my little one to attend to. I'm for choice, revamping and improving the educational system in general. I think helping families with kids is a good thing. I don't think three grand is going to do the trick however. It seems like a half measure that is based on a good idea but might do more harm than good because it doesn't go far enough.

You don't need a private school. Seattle has separate schools for different abilities. The advanced placement just cleaned up at a local math competition. It's a four tier system there are separate schools for kids that test in the top 1%, a Spectrum (gifted) program with different classes exclusively for those that test in the top 3% and an accelerated program that within normal classes for the smarter kids that are left over.

I like this system. I work hard with my daughter to get her as advanced as possible. She's doing great. The people that think smart kids should be left in normal classes for one reason or another are not so happy.

[USCAdad]

Oh, and just to throw it out. Private school in Seattle is 20,000 plus. In Van it's a bit over 12,000, at least last I checked.