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CKA Uber
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 11:11 am
 


Filibuster Cartoons
Title: Those awful atheists (click to view)
Date: December 2, 2011
How many of your friends are atheists? Half? Most? All? Do they seem like okay people? If you think so, you're in more of a minortiy than you might think.

A new study released this week by the psychology department of the University of the British Columbia found that both Canadians and Americans have a deep-seeded bias against fellow citizens who don't believe in God, and assume them to be among the most untrustworthy of all minorities. As many sensationalistic headlines have noted, the study found that "only rapists" had a more universally negative reputation.

This comes on the heels of many similar studies in recent years, which routinely note that North Americans would generally prefer not to marry, live beside, have their children educated by, or vote for anyone who disbelieves, and when given the choice between an atheist and some other unpopular minority, such as a homosexual or Muslim, most will gladly take the latter.

What makes such findings odd — at times almost incomprehensible — is how jarringly this data clashes with what we all know about modern society, namely that everyone is getting less and less religious with the passage of time. Year after year, the census finds rates of respondents claiming "no religion" gradually climbing, while church attendance steadily falls. Notions of God and church traditions are routinely mocked in the popular culture, and rising rates of secular, post-secondary education spread ever-greater awareness of the flaws and paradoxes of purely religious reasoning. As I noted in the opening, if you're reading this I suspect you almost certainly have a lot of openly atheist friends — if not an atheist yourself — since Internet forums relating to politics and debate have proven to be a vibrant breeding ground of nonbeliever sentiment as well (a friend of mine recently admitted that he visits Reddit a lot less these days because of its obnoxiously evangelical atheism).

Clearly some of this is a generational thing. Data shows that that unbelief correlates pretty strongly with being raised by Baby Boomers, who are, in turn, considerably less churchy than their parents before them. Growing up in a mostly post-Cold War world, our generation was never subjected to fear-mongering over the "atheist tyranny" of the Soviet Union, and have instead been raised in a global climate where the most frightening and violent political movements seem to be motivated by too much God, rather than too little. Closer to home, there are no shortages of causes near and dear to the heart of young people, from gay rights to prematrial sex, that seem frustratingly and irrationally opposed entirely out of deference to a supreme being that seems cruelly obsessed with restricting personal freedom.

Yet at the same time, the UBC study did not find a notable difference between the opinions of young Canadian college students and adult Americans on the atheist question. People who almost certainly know and like atheists were still inclined to view the group as suspicious and morally questionable, at least in the abstract.

Part of me wonders if "atheist" has simply evolved into a convenient shorthand describing a certain type of personality inclination that may be troubling out of context, but not necessarily as a feature of a larger whole. If, for example, we think about violent psychopaths, sociopaths, and nihilists, and the self-obsessed egoism that tends to motivate their crimes, it's only logical to suspect that such people are probably atheists too, since only atheism would be compatible with that kind of worldview. In other words, a classic "while not all fruits are apples, all apples are fruits" type situation, and the same sort of cautious bigotry that motivates NPR liberals like Juan Williams to avoid Muslims on airplanes or color-blind progressives like Grandma Obama to steer clear of blacks in dark alleys. Not all atheists are cold-hearted, insensitive, sadistic psychos, but if you're really obsessed with avoiding such types at all costs, maybe it's better to steer clear of the godless community just the same.

But I'm curious to hear what you guys think. Regardless as to whether or not you're an atheist yourself or have lots of atheist buddies, do you think atheists, as an abstract group, are a generally respectable, trustworthy, moral community? It's a different question than whether you believe their claims of a godless universe are factually correct, or whether religious people support irrational and odious causes. All things considered, if given the choice, would you prefer to have less of them in your life?

Statistically speaking, a lot of you will have to say yes.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 11:16 am
 


I don't hate atheists or religious people. I hate people that try to shove their beliefs down my throat.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 11:26 am
 


Haven't seen any atheists bombing or killing for their beliefs of late. And even the examples usually given: Hitler, Stalin, et al weren't about fanatically promoting atheism as their motivating core. I think they were just fighting the power of the church to give themselves more power. Hitler's regime wasn't even atheist.

I was very surprised by this finding. Haven't seen an explanation for it yet that makes sense to me.

I'm if anything more inclined to trust an atheist actually. The religious can scare me far more than any atheist I've come across. But really I trust agnostics - seems like the only realistic position to take - what do we know? Oh, I also trust people more who's religious beliefs I don't know, because that means they view it as a private matter, not something to shove down other people's throats. So it's not what the religious belief is, it's what people do with it that matters to me.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 12:32 pm
 


The only response I've ever to found that works against evangelical atheists is, "Why do you care?"


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 12:33 pm
 


andyt wrote:
Haven't seen any atheists bombing or killing for their beliefs of late. And even the examples usually given: Hitler, Stalin, et al weren't about fanatically promoting atheism as their motivating core. I think they were just fighting the power of the church to give themselves more power. Hitler's regime wasn't even atheist.

I was very surprised by this finding. Haven't seen an explanation for it yet that makes sense to me.

I'm if anything more inclined to trust an atheist actually. The religious can scare me far more than any atheist I've come across. But really I trust agnostics - seems like the only realistic position to take - what do we know? Oh, I also trust people more who's religious beliefs I don't know, because that means they view it as a private matter, not something to shove down other people's throats. So it's not what the religious belief is, it's what people do with it that matters to me.


You might be on to something. I don't know of any brutal regimes that have used the color beige in their flags. They use bright, striking images to embolden their people to conquer all enemies, real or invented. If all flags were the color beige, the world would be a more peaceful place.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 1:11 pm
 


I agree with almost all of what andyt is saying. I would be slightly more inclined to have any offspring of mine taught by an atheist than a Christian. I despise antitheism (evangelical atheism), though. You're not going to convert people to your side by loudly proclaiming that what they believe is wrong. If you disagree, please tell me how many people currently identify with the Westboro Baptist Church.

I think a lot of people confuse atheism with nihilism (a belief in NOTHING!). An atheist, strictly speaking, needs only believe that gods, be the one or many, do not exist. It does not preclude other spiritual beliefs like an afterlife.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 1:14 pm
 


Bless 'em all I say.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 1:26 pm
 


Christians love their Gods.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 1:33 pm
 


Get thee behind me satan.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 1:38 pm
 


All glory to the Magical Platypus!


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 1:39 pm
 


I can't even say that I know any non-atheists, or at least, nobody I know goes to church and nobody has talked to me recently about God, but there may be some believers among them. So of course, I find atheists to be generally respectable, trustworthy and moral.

In my search of a female companion, I have no prerequisite that she be atheist, it just doesn't matter. I did go out with one recently that found it a problem that I was not a believer.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 1:43 pm
 


raydan wrote:
I can't even say that I know any non-atheists, or at least, nobody I know goes to church and nobody has talked to me recently about God, but there may be some believers among them. So of course, I find atheists to be generally respectable, trustworthy and moral.

In my search of a female companion, I have no prerequisite that she be atheist, it just doesn't matter. I did go out with one recently that found it a problem that I was not a believer.


I thought generally the arcs of fire for your search had been pared down to... breathing.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 1:46 pm
 


Gunnair wrote:
raydan wrote:
I can't even say that I know any non-atheists, or at least, nobody I know goes to church and nobody has talked to me recently about God, but there may be some believers among them. So of course, I find atheists to be generally respectable, trustworthy and moral.

In my search of a female companion, I have no prerequisite that she be atheist, it just doesn't matter. I did go out with one recently that found it a problem that I was not a believer.


I thought generally the arcs of fire for your search had been pared down to... breathing.

Breathing... and female. :lol:


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 1:47 pm
 


We can call him the Magic Mirror Man


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 1:53 pm
 


raydan wrote:
Gunnair wrote:
raydan wrote:
I can't even say that I know any non-atheists, or at least, nobody I know goes to church and nobody has talked to me recently about God, but there may be some believers among them. So of course, I find atheists to be generally respectable, trustworthy and moral.

In my search of a female companion, I have no prerequisite that she be atheist, it just doesn't matter. I did go out with one recently that found it a problem that I was not a believer.


I thought generally the arcs of fire for your search had been pared down to... breathing.

Breathing... and female. :lol:


50% of your future dating potential... eliminated.


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