[Newsbot]

Filibuster Cartoons
Title: Time for another transfusion (click to view)
Date: November 23, 2008
The ginormous American banking conglomerate Citigroup became the latest failing corporation to recieve a massive financial bailout from US taxpayers this week, as Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson approved a plan to inject $20 billion into the struggling firm.

This comes in addition to the billions Paulson has already used to bailout the giant insurance group AIG and nationalize mortgage firms Freddie Mae and Freddie Mac, and comes in anticipation of a huge bailout of the "big three" American automakers. And I'm sure there's more where that came from.

Now I realize the American treasury is incomprehensibly enormous, but isn't there some finite limit on how much money the government can spend on all these bailouts? Politicians of both parties have yet to give a good answer on what existing government programs are going to have to be cut in the aftermath of all this.

[Tiler]

Huge companies being granted huge sums of cash since they're 'too big to fail', companies, I may add, which had very active lobbyists?

It's not corruption, it's just a bailout!

I'm more or less engaging in blatant hearsay and hyperbole, but still. The lending corperations at least had the justification that without them, nobody else would have any money either, but the big three? Those need to fail if this nation wants to pretend there is still a semblance of capitalism in this country. The money can just be used to pay people to do something more useful instead of working for a ass-backwards company. Like digging holes. And filling them back up again.

[Psudo]

To provide a sense of scale:
Annual US Federal Budgets (expenditures, 2007): $2.8 trillion
AIG bailout: $85 billion (11 days of US Fed spending)
Automaker bailout: $25 billion has been suggested (3 days 6 hours of US Fed spending)
Fanny Mae/Freddie Mac bailout: $700 billion (3 months of US Fed spending)

US Military Expenses, 2007: $466 billion (2 months of US Fed spending) [source]
US Welfare Spending, 2007 (namely, Social Security, Medicaid, Medicare, unemployment, and the like): $1.6 trillion (7 months of US Fed spending)

Canada's Federal Budget (expenditures, 2004): $210 billion (27 days of US Fed spending) [source]
Bill Gates' Net Worth: $57 billion (7 days 10 hours of US Fed spending) [source]
Wal-Mart (market value): $198.6 billion (nearly 26 days of US Fed spending) [source]
General Electric (market value): $330.9 billion (43 days of US Fed spending) [[same source as above]]

$1 million = 11.3 seconds of US Fed spending.

[thealmightynarf]

Tiler wrote:

I'm more or less engaging in blatant hearsay and hyperbole, but still. The lending corperations at least had the justification that without them, nobody else would have any money either, but the big three? Those need to fail if this nation wants to pretend there is still a semblance of capitalism in this country. The money can just be used to pay people to do something more useful instead of working for a ass-backwards company. Like digging holes. And filling them back up again.

I really have to agree with that... I mean, it's pretty easy to imagine what could happen if the banking industry collapsed. "End of the American economy" doesn't really sound that far off. But, is it really that big a deal if the American auto industry had to cut back? Yea, sure, they're going through a slow down... Everyone's going through a slow down. I mean, what can a "bail-out" accomplish that Chapter 11 bankruptcy can't just as easily deal with?

[Voyager]

thealmightynarf wrote:

[...]
I mean, what can a "bail-out" accomplish that Chapter 11 bankruptcy can't just as easily deal with?

Keep the UAW in gravy?

[Scape]

Fed Proposes new $7.4 TRILLION Bailout

[thealmightynarf]

Voyager wrote:

thealmightynarf wrote:

[...]
I mean, what can a "bail-out" accomplish that Chapter 11 bankruptcy can't just as easily deal with?

Keep the UAW in gravy?

Ch.11 is essentially just a loan from the government to keep corporations in business... except with a lot more strings attached than bailouts. It requires that the company put together an action plan to become viable again, and that their employees and vendors get paid before the corporate big wigs get to even look at the money. It's really the best thing for everyone involved.

I mean, if all the UAW wants is for employees to get paid regardless if it's productive for the economy or not then, like Psudo said, the government might as well just pay them to randomly dig holes or whatever...

[ShepherdsDog]

How about a major bailout for the middle class. Small and medium sized businesses employ 80% of the work force, yet they bear the brunt of taxes. If the Big 3 car makers go bankrupt - TFB. The factories are still there. They'll be bought up or sold off to other companies that will retool them. It'd be nice to see more companies and more competition and a real free market.

[thealmightynarf]

ShepherdsDog wrote:

The factories are still there. They'll be bought up or sold off to other companies that will retool them.

Not likely.

The real issue behind "the big 3" is that America is becoming increasingly a "post-industrial" or "service-based" economy. There's very little point manufacturing products (like cars) in the US any more other than for the sake of saying your manufacturing products in the US.

If the auto companies do go under, the factories will probably be closed for good.

[Tiler]

thealmightynarf wrote:

I mean, if all the UAW wants is for employees to get paid regardless if it's productive for the economy or not then, like Psudo said, the government might as well just pay them to randomly dig holes or whatever...

Tiler wrote:

The money can just be used to pay people to do something more useful instead of working for a ass-backwards company. Like digging holes. And filling them back up again.

:<

[Zipperfish]

thealmightynarf wrote:

The real issue behind "the big 3" is that America is becoming increasingly a "post-industrial" or "service-based" economy.

In the immortal words of Dr. Phil: "How's that workin' for ya?"

[thealmightynarf]

Zipperfish wrote:

thealmightynarf wrote:

The real issue behind "the big 3" is that America is becoming increasingly a "post-industrial" or "service-based" economy.

In the immortal words of Dr. Phil: "How's that workin' for ya?"

Well, seeing as it's the industrial companies that need bailouts once the economy starts to shake...

We don't see Time Warner or McDonalds asking for bailouts, do we?

[Pseudonym]

I hate politicians. That about sums it up.

[Psudo]

Scape wrote:

Fed Proposes new $7.4 TRILLION Bailout

That's just ridiculous. 2.5 times total 2007 spending!? Are they going to measure it in % of GWP just to make the numbers palatable?

Government should not be doing this at all. Not one dollar, not one cent, not one regulation. It's absurd that they even think they can control this mess.

thealmightynarf wrote:

like Psudo said, the government might as well just pay them to randomly dig holes or whatever...

That was Tiler. As he pointed out.

[Robair]

Psudo wrote:

Government should not be doing this at all. Not one dollar, not one cent, not one regulation. It's absurd that they even think they can control this mess.

Isn't lack of regulation how Greenspan got us into this mess in the first place?